【亞馬遜創辦人貝佐斯最新訪談】「從亞馬遜到太空：傑夫·貝佐斯談創新、進步與未來 | Jeff Bezos AI full interview」#科技趨勢#太空探索#Blue Origin#Amazon

亚马逊创始人杰夫·贝佐斯在最新访谈中讨论了他对创新、进步和未来的看法。访谈涵盖了他在亚马逊和蓝色起源（Blue Origin）的工作，以及他对《华盛顿邮报》的所有权。特别是，他解释了《华盛顿邮报》在最近选举中不支持任何总统候选人的决定，认为这种决定是为了维护媒体的独立性和公信力，尽管这引来了部分读者的反弹和订阅取消。贝佐斯强调，这一决定是正确的，尽管预料到会有反响，但他认为不应因担心公关问题而做出错误的决定。

【亞馬遜創辦人貝佐斯最新訪談】「從亞馬遜到太空：傑夫·貝佐斯談創新、進步與未來 | Jeff Bezos AI full interview」#科技趨勢#太空探索#Blue Origin#Amazon

摘要

亚马逊创始人杰夫·贝佐斯在最新访谈中讨论了他对创新、进步和未来的看法。访谈涵盖了他在亚马逊和蓝色起源（Blue Origin）的工作，以及他对《华盛顿邮报》的所有权。特别是，他解释了《华盛顿邮报》在最近选举中不支持任何总统候选人的决定，认为这种决定是为了维护媒体的独立性和公信力，尽管这引来了部分读者的反弹和订阅取消。贝佐斯强调，这一决定是正确的，尽管预料到会有反响，但他认为不应因担心公关问题而做出错误的决定。

要点

• 贝佐斯讨论了亚马逊和蓝色起源在创新和太空探索方面的努力
• _华盛顿邮报_不支持总统候选人的决定旨在维护媒体独立性和公信力
• 贝佐斯认为这一决定正确，尽管引来了反弹和订阅取消
• 他强调不应因担心公关问题而做出错误的决定

关键词

杰夫·贝佐斯, 亚马逊, 蓝色起源, 华盛顿邮报, 媒体独立性, 太空探索

摘要元信息

• backend: openai
• model: nvidia/llama-3.3-nemotron-super-49b-v1

【亞馬遜創辦人貝佐斯最新訪談】「從亞馬遜到太空：傑夫·貝佐斯談創新、進步與未來 | Jeff Bezos AI full interview」#科技趨勢#太空探索#Blue Origin#Amazon

原视频：https://youtu.be/M42UCap-5mI?si=a9dWVZGHmp6i5dB2

来源：YouTube 字幕（官方/自动）

说明：按时间轴聚合整理，适合阅读和检索；个别句子可能存在自动字幕误差。

00:00:03 - 00:00:03

**中文：**杰夫，非常感谢你今天能来。

English: Jeff thank you so much for being here uh we always try to save the best for last

00:00:03 - 00:00:26

**中文：**我们总是把最好的留在最后，我们真的非常激动 你能来。我今天一开始就说过，现在 我还要再说一遍，杰夫，杰夫是 世界上最成功的 企业家之一。我们 今天一直在谈论一些举足轻重的人物，毫无疑问，杰夫改变了我们的生活方式。能这样评价一个人实属难得。

English: Jeff thank you so much for being here uh we always try to save the best for last and uh we couldn't be more thrilled for you to be here um I said it at the beginning of the day um and I'll say it again in front of you Jeff Jeff is one of the world's most successful entrepreneurs uh we talk a lot about people we've talked about it all day about people of consequence on this stage and there is no question uh that Jeff has changed the way we live really stage and there is no question uh that Jeff has changed the way we live really um and it's rare to be able to say that Jeff has changed the way we live really um and it's rare to be able to say that about anybody u in 1994 he found it

00:00:26 - 00:00:45

**中文：**1994年，他创立了 亚马逊，最初只是 西雅图车库里的一家在线书店。如今，亚马逊已是 美国市值最高的五家公司之一。现在，他正 通过他的 蓝色起源公司，将目光投向更广阔的太空，他正全力以赴地探索

English: um and it's rare to be able to say that about anybody u in 1994 he found it Amazon uh which started as an online book seller you know the story right out of his garage in Seattle today Amazon's one of the most five valuable companies in America now he's focused uh far beyond Earth to outer space through his company blue origin he's racing to the moon and then to Mars his new Glenn

00:00:45 - 00:00:52

**中文：**月球和火星。他的新型格伦 重型运载火箭预计 随时发射。

English: company blue origin he's racing to the moon and then to Mars his new Glenn heavy lift booster rocket expected to launch any day now any day now and uh meanwhile back here on Earth his Bezos

00:00:52 - 00:01:05

**中文：**与此同时，在地球上，他的贝佐斯 地球基金正在筹集20亿美元的资金。到目前为止，他当然还拥有《 华盛顿邮报》的股份，这让他 最近几周频频登上新闻头条。就此而言，《华盛顿邮报》的影响力远超其规模。

English: launch any day now any day now and uh meanwhile back here on Earth his Bezos Earth fund granting $2 billion so far and of course he also owns the stored Washington Post post which has put him in the headlines in recent weeks as well it punches above its weight in that in the headlines in recent weeks as well it punches above its weight in that regard U and we're going to talk about

00:01:05 - 00:01:16

**中文：**我们将讨论 它，我们将讨论所有这些 以及更多内容。事实上，如果您不介意的话，我想就从 这里开始。是的，从《华盛顿邮报》开始。

English: it punches above its weight in that regard U and we're going to talk about it we're going to talk about all of that and more um and in fact what I want to do if you'd indulge me is actually start there yeah with the Washington Post and the reason I want to do that um because

00:01:16 - 00:01:33

**中文：**我想这样做的原因是，我认为，正如我们都看到的选举过程，以及在选举前不 支持任何总统候选人的决定，我认为这成为了 我们社会中许多不同问题的缩影。

English: there yeah with the Washington Post and the reason I want to do that um because I think as we all saw the election play out and we saw the decision uh not to endorse a presidential candidate prior to that it became I think a a microcosm of so many different things in our society uh that decision it became a RAR

00:01:33 - 00:01:44

**中文：**这个决定成为了 对人们及其政治的一次考验，它成为了一个关于 媒体信任、影响力、商业 利益以及其他许多问题的问题。

English: of so many different things in our society uh that decision it became a RAR Shack test for people and their politics it became uh a question about trust in the media about influence about business interests and so many other other things and so I was hoping maybe just to sort

00:01:44 - 00:02:01

**中文：**所以我希望，也许能 帮助我们更好地理解这个故事，我们都 读到了它。您能否用您自己的 话，带我们回到 选举前两周，也就是做出这个决定的时候，发生了 什么，以及 您当时的想法是什么？当时……

English: interests and so many other other things and so I was hoping maybe just to sort of help us with this story which we all read about if you could just in your own words take us back to the two weeks before the election when that decision was made and what happened and what was going through your mind at that time well it was the time when uh for some

00:02:01 - 00:02:21

**中文：**嗯，在《 华盛顿邮报》做出 社论决定并支持某位 总统候选人的那几年里，《华盛顿 邮报》一直非常谨慎地不为 总统候选人背书。

English: going through your mind at that time well it was the time when uh for some number of years about that time when the Washington Post would uh you know make an editorial decision and endorse a presidential candidate for many decades the post uh very studiously did not endorse presidential candidates the the kind of founder of the modern post guy

00:02:21 - 00:02:37

**中文：**现代《华盛顿邮报》的创始人之一 尤金·迈耶（Eugene Meyer） 反对这种做法，因为他认为一份独立 报纸不应该 支持总统候选人。他的话语至今仍镌刻在报社大厅入口处。

English: endorse presidential candidates the the kind of founder of the modern post guy named Eugene Meyer whose words are still inscribed on the in the lobby as you walk in with was against the idea because he thought an independent newspaper shouldn't be uh endorsing presidential candidates and so they didn't do it after Watergate

00:02:37 - 00:02:59

**中文：**所以，在水门事件之后，《华盛顿邮报》 开始为 总统候选人背书。我们 讨论的正是在那个时期，此前 从未出现过这种情况。我们当时就 决定，这样做 不会有任何帮助。首先，它不会 影响选举结果。

English: be uh endorsing presidential candidates and so they didn't do it after Watergate the post started uh endorsing presidential candidates and so we're talking about this in that time frame um it hadn't come up before and um you know we just decided that you know it wasn't going to help for well first of all it wasn't going to that you know it wasn't going to help for well first of all it wasn't going to influence the election either way you know there we we didn't believe there's

00:02:59 - 00:03:13

**中文：**我们当时不相信 报纸的背书会 影响选举结果。当时宾夕法尼亚州没有哪个独立 选民会 说：“哦，《 华盛顿邮报》是这么想的吗？那我也投他们一票。” 所以，这种情况不会发生。

English: influence the election either way you know there we we didn't believe there's no evidence that newspaper endorsements influence elections there no independent voter in Pennsylvania at that time was going to say oh is that what the Washington Post thinks well then I'll do that so that wasn't going to happen and at the same time um you know we're

00:03:13 - 00:03:41

**中文：**与此同时…… 你知道，我们正面临着 所有 传统媒体都在面临的问题，那就是 信任度的严重下降。你知道，信任度调查 已经进行了几十年，媒体在这些调查中的支持率一直在下降。

English: that so that wasn't going to happen and at the same time um you know we're struggling with the issue that all uh traditional media is struggling with which is a very difficult and significant loss of trust and you know the trust surveys have been done for many decades now and the media has been going down in those surveys for decades they've always been

00:03:41 - 00:04:05

**中文：**他们总是 能勉强保住一个 小小的优势——他们的支持率一直高于 国会。但今年，他们连这个优势也失去了，跌到了国会之下，这可不是件 容易的事。

English: the media has been going down in those surveys for decades they've always been able to hang on to the one you know small positive they're always above Congress and this year they lost even that um falling below Congress which is not easy to achieve um Congress was thrilled by the way not to be at the

00:04:05 - 00:04:07

**中文：**顺便说一句，国会很高兴自己没有垫底。

English: is not easy to achieve um Congress was thrilled by the way not to be at the very bottom of the list and so we just

00:04:07 - 00:04:41

**中文：**所以我们 决定，这样做的好处 微乎其微，反而加剧了人们对媒体 偏见的印象。你知道，报纸和媒体如果想要做到 客观 独立，就必须满足 投票机的要求：准确计票，人们也必须相信 他们能够准确计票。这

English: thrilled by the way not to be at the very bottom of the list and so we just decided that um the the pluses of doing this were very small and it added to the perception of bias you know the newspapers and media in general if they are going to try and be objective and independent they have to pass the same requirement that a voting machine does they have to count the votes accurately and people have to believe that they count the votes accurately both requirements are just as important

00:04:41 - 00:04:59

**中文：**两个要求 对投票机来说同样重要，媒体也 一样。当然，这 并非完全是媒体的错，还有很多外部 因素在起作用。但是，凡是我们能做的，我们就应该做。好吧，让我问问你，你知道这件事引发了反弹。

English: that they count the votes accurately both requirements are just as important for a voting machine and media is similar and there is a there's a strong per not all of it is the media's Fault there's a lot of uh a lot of external factors involved too but where we can do something we should okay let me ask you and you you know that there was blowback uh I just want to read you this is Marty

00:04:59 - 00:05:02

**中文：**嗯，我想读一下马蒂· 巴伦（Marty Baron）的话，他是你们那份报纸的前任编辑。

English: and you you know that there was blowback uh I just want to read you this is Marty Baron who was your former editor of that paper he said this is cowardice with

00:05:02 - 00:05:14

**中文：**他说这是懦弱的表现，民主成了牺牲品。大卫·雷米克（David Remick） 说，如果杰夫·贝佐斯（Jeff Bezos） 两年前就说他认为社论版 应该取消所有背书，你可以从正反两方面来论证，

English: Baron who was your former editor of that paper he said this is cowardice with democracy as its casualty David Remick said if Jeff Bezos had said two years ago that he thought the editorial page should get rid of endorsements all of them you could argue the case one way or another but he was effectively

00:05:14 - 00:05:37

**中文：**但他实际上是在 暗示，鉴于当时的情况和 时机，如果我 两年前就考虑过这个问题，出于 舆论考虑，那会更好。但 事实上，我们做出了这个 决定，嗯，这是正确的决定。我为我们 做出的决定感到自豪，这绝非

English: them you could argue the case one way or another but he was effectively suggesting that given this scenario with the timing of it look at if I had had the pressence to think about this topic at all two years before that would have been better for perception reasons but uh in fact we made this decision uh was the right decision I'm proud of the decision we made and it was far from cowardly because we knew there

00:05:37 - 00:05:41

**中文：**懦弱，因为我们知道 会有反弹，但我们仍然做了正确的事。

English: proud of the decision we made and it was far from cowardly because we knew there would be blowback and we did the right thing anyway okay so let me ask you

00:05:41 - 00:05:56

**中文：**好吧，让我问问你，虽然有反弹，我 想，嗯，有25万人取消了 订阅。那么，你认为你们这样做的时候，会不会有人 说这实际上会降低人们 对媒体的信任？我的意思是，对吧？部分原因是，它旨在建立

English: would be blowback and we did the right thing anyway okay so let me ask you about that though there was blowback I think uh 250,000 people canceled their subscription so do you think when you were doing this that some people were going to say that actually creates less Trust in Media I mean right part part of it was it was it was aimed at creating more Trust in Media and at the same time

00:05:56 - 00:06:14

**中文：**更多媒体信任，同时 澄清CLE（内容审查和解释）方面，也有人说 信任度可能降低了。不，我不 认同这种逻辑。嗯，你不认同。那么，你对此感到惊讶吗？其实并 没有。我们知道，我们知道 这件事会引起

English: it was it was it was aimed at creating more Trust in Media and at the same time clear CLE there were other people saying maybe there's less trust no I don't follow that logic you don't mm and so what did you were you surprised at the not really we knew there would we knew that this was going to be uh perceived in a very big way as I said you know

00:06:14 - 00:06:20

**中文：**很大的反响。正如我所说，你知道，这类事情的影响往往超出预期。

English: that this was going to be uh perceived in a very big way as I said you know these things punch above their weight and were you worried about that at all I

00:06:20 - 00:06:29

**中文：**你对此感到担忧吗？我的 意思是，你不能 因为担心 糟糕的公关或其他什么原因而做错事。

English: these things punch above their weight and were you worried about that at all I mean this you can't worry you can't do the wrong thing because you're worried about uh bad PR or whatever it is you want to call it so you this is this was

00:06:29 - 00:06:45

**中文：**所以，这是一个 正确的决定，我们做出了正确的 决定。我为这个决定感到非常自豪。那么，我想问 你一个相关的问题。

English: about uh bad PR or whatever it is you want to call it so you this is this was the right decision we made the right decision um I'm very proud of the decision so let me just uh ask you ask decision um I'm very proud of the decision so let me just uh ask you ask you one related question um which is this um you said in your um opinion

00:06:45 - 00:07:07

**中文：**你在 关于这一切的评论文章中提到过，我觉得很 有意思。你说，就 表面上的利益冲突而言，我不是 理想的所有者，不，我是一个糟糕的 所有者。从表面上看，可能没有一天会发生这种情况。

English: you one related question um which is this um you said in your um opinion piece about all of this I thought it was fascinating um you said when it comes to the appearance of conflict I am the not not the ideal owner no I'm a terrible owner post for the post from the point of view of appearance of you know probably not a single day goes by where some Amazon executive or some blue

00:07:07 - 00:07:31

**中文：**亚马逊高管、蓝色 起源高管或贝佐斯地球 基金领导人，如果没在某个地方与 政府官员会面，那么 总会有利益 冲突的迹象。从这个角度来看，一个纯粹的报业 老板，只拥有一份报纸，不做其他任何事，可能才是 更好的老板。

English: probably not a single day goes by where some Amazon executive or some blue origin executive or some Bezos Earth fund leader right isn't meeting with a government official somewhere and so there are always going to be appearances of conflict and is that a pure newspaper owner who only owned a newspaper and did nothing else would probably be from that owner who only owned a newspaper and did nothing else would probably be from that point of view a much better owner now the advantage I bring to the post is you

00:07:32 - 00:07:45

**中文：**我给《华盛顿邮报》带来的优势是，当 他们 需要资金时，我随时待命。我 在这方面就像个溺爱孩子的家长。

English: point of view a much better owner now the advantage I bring to the post is you know when when we uh you know when they need Financial Resources I'm available kind of uh you know I'm like that I'm the doting parent in that regard um I think embedded underneath

00:07:45 - 00:08:10

**中文：**我认为，问题的核心在于，《 华尔街日报》和《 纽约时报》都报道过这个问题，那就是—— 这也是 人们关心的问题——你是否 担心 你的其他业务会受到 特朗普的影响，担心他最终会因为 负面报道而对亚马逊或蓝色起源进行报复，

English: that I'm the doting parent in that regard um I think embedded underneath the the fundamental question is this and the Wall Street Journal wrote about it the New York Times has been writing about it it's whether and this was I think the question that people had which was whether you had any worry in your mind by your other businesses about uh Trump uh and whether he would ultimately Target an Amazon or Target a blue origin as retaliation against negative coverage given that you had lived through that no

00:08:10 - 00:08:14

**中文：**毕竟你经历过那种情况。不，我不这么认为，我肯定没想过这个问题。

English: as retaliation against negative coverage given that you had lived through that no I don't think so that was certainly not in my mind and I'm also uh very aware

00:08:14 - 00:08:36

**中文：**而且我也很清楚，《华盛顿 邮报》对所有总统的报道都非常 积极。继续 积极报道所有总统，你知道，无论他是否支持你，都不会 改变任何事情，哪怕是一 点点也不会。所以，如果他喜欢你，他就是喜欢你；

English: I don't think so that was certainly not in my mind and I'm also uh very aware that the post covers all presidents very aggressively is going to continue to cover all presidents very aggressively and uh you know this endorsement or not endorsement isn't going to you did not think that was going to change miss a drop in the bucket anything so no won't change anything if he likes you he likes you and if he doesn't like you he's not

00:08:36 - 00:08:55

**中文：**如果他不喜欢你，反正他也不会 喜欢你。嗯，我不 知道，我的意思是，这是另一个 问题。但是，如果我们谈论的是 特朗普，我认为这很 有意思。这次我真的非常 乐观，我们会 看到……我对他充满希望，

English: change anything if he likes you he likes you and if he doesn't like you he's not going to like you anyway well I don't know I mean that that's a different question um but you if we're talking about Trump I think it's very interesting I'm I'm actually very optimistic this time around that uh we're going to see I'm very hopeful about this

00:08:59 - 00:09:18

**中文：**他似乎在 减少 监管方面投入了大量精力。我的观点是，如果我能帮 他做到这一点，我会帮助他，因为我们国家的监管确实太多了。顺便 说一句，我们国家的所有问题，我们所有的经济问题，比如赤字，

English: his he seems to have a lot of energy around reducing regulation and my point of view if I can help him do that I'm going to help him because we do have too much regulation in this country this country is so set up right to grow by the way all of our problems all of our economic problems like if you look at the the deficit and I mean you know the debt the national

00:09:18 - 00:09:27

**中文：**我的意思是，你知道债务，国债，以及它占 GDP的比例有多么庞大，这些都是真正的问题，而且 是真正的长期问题。

English: like if you look at the the deficit and I mean you know the debt the national debt and how gigantic it is as a portion of GDP these are real problems and they're real long-term problems and the way you get out of them is by out

00:09:27 - 00:09:50

**中文：**摆脱困境的方法是超越 它们，你将通过降低国债占GDP的比例来 解决 国债问题，而 不是通过 减少国债本身，而是通过 增长GDP。你必须增长 分母，这意味着GDP必须 以每年3%到5%的速度增长，同时让国债增长速度

English: they're real long-term problems and the way you get out of them is by out growing them you're going to get you're going to you're going to solve the problem of the national debt by making it a smaller percentage of GDP not by shrinking the national debt but by growing the GDP you have to grow the denominator and that means you have to grow GDP at you know 3 four 5% a year and you know let the national debt grow

00:09:55 - 00:10:08

**中文：**低于这个水平。如果你能做到这一点，这将 是一个很容易控制的问题。因此，我们需要 在这个国家树立增长导向，这是最重要的，我们需要 增长型思维。我们是 世界上最幸运的国家，我们拥有丰富的

English: slower than that if you can do that this is a very manageable problem so we need a growth orientation in this country this is the most important thing a growth mindset and we are the luckiest country in the world we have all these natural resources including energy

00:10:08 - 00:10:29

**中文：**自然资源，包括能源 独立，我们拥有 迄今为止世界上最好的风险资本体系。所以 人们常常困惑，为什么 美国有如此多的 风险投资和创业 成功，为什么大型科技公司都在 这里而不是其他地方？与

English: country in the world we have all these natural resources including energy Independence we have the best risk Capital system in the world by far so you know people get confused about why does the United States have so much Venture success so much entrepreneurial success why are the big tech companies here and not somewhere else what's really going on with all this dynamism

00:10:37 - 00:10:37

**中文：**世界其他地方相比，这个国家如此充满活力的原因是什么？

English: around elsewhere in the world and the P there a bunch of reasons for that but

00:10:37 - 00:10:54

**中文：**有很多原因，但 最重要的一点（十点中的第八点） 是，我们拥有 更好的风险 资本，这并非银行体系的问题。你 知道，我们的银行体系很好，欧洲的银行体系也很好，对吧？不同之处在于，你可以获得，你可以筹集到

English: around elsewhere in the world and the P there a bunch of reasons for that but the biggest one uh eight of 10 points there is that we have better risk Capital it's not the banking system you know we have a good banking system but so does Europe right what's different here is that you can get you can raise you know $50 million of seed Capital to

00:10:54 - 00:11:17

**中文：**5000万美元的种子资金，去做一些成功率 只有10%的事情，这很 疯狂。但那些给 你种子资金的人知道，在很多情况下，他们的预期收益仍然是正的，或者至少他们是在 赌这个结果。

English: here is that you can get you can raise you know $50 million of seed Capital to do something that only has a 10% chance of working that's crazy and but the people who are giving you that seed Capital know that the that their expected value is still positive in many cases or they're at least gambling that that's true that risk Capital system that we have in this

00:11:17 - 00:11:29

**中文：**我们国家的风险资本体系正变得 其他国家很难复制。我们 拥有这样的体系，你知道，我们说 英语，英语正在成为 全世界的通用语。

English: gambling that that's true that risk Capital system that we have in this country is turning out to be very hard for other countries to duplicate so we have that we have you know we speak English and English is turning into the lingua franka of the whole world it's say you

00:11:29 - 00:11:42

**中文：**你 知道，这里有这么多优势，但 我们却被过多的许可 和监管所束缚。你甚至不能建一座桥，诸如此类的事情，你知道它们是什么吗？我们经常看到这些例子。我们需要能够建造太阳能发电场等等。

English: lingua franka of the whole world it's say you know there's so many advantages here but we are burdened by excessive permiting and regulation you can't build a bridge and all these things you know what they are we see these examples all the time and all these things you know what they are we see these examples all the time we need to be able to build solar fields are we see these examples all the time we need to be able to build solar fields and everything you're optimistic I'm

00:11:42 - 00:12:07

**中文：**我 对这位总统非常乐观，我非常 乐观的原因是，特朗普总统认真对待 这项监管议程，而且我认为 他会…… 他很有 可能成功。那么，他认为媒体是 敌人呢？嗯，我想我会试着劝 他放弃这个想法。我不

English: we need to be able to build solar fields and everything you're optimistic I'm super about this President and the reason I because very optimistic that that President Trump is serious about this regulatory agenda and I I think he's going to I think he has a good chance of succeeding what about the idea that he thinks thinks that the Press is the enemy well I I think he I'm going to try to talk him out of that idea I don't think the Press is the enemy and I don't

00:12:07 - 00:12:20

**中文：**认为媒体是敌人，而且我 觉得你知道，他……他 可能在过去的八年里成长了很多，他也一样。你知道，事实 并非如此，媒体不是敌人。

English: try to talk him out of that idea I don't think the Press is the enemy and I don't think you know he he's also I you've probably grown in the last eight years he has too like it's you know this is not the case the Press is not the enemy I hope you're right I hope I'm right too

00:12:20 - 00:12:24

**中文：**我希望你是对的，我也希望我是对的。我们 去劝劝他吧。

English: not the case the Press is not the enemy I hope you're right I hope I'm right too have you let's go persuade him of this no let's but you and I should go let's

00:12:24 - 00:12:34

**中文：**不，我们去吧，你和我应该去跟 他谈谈。如果我们能试试的话，我 认为他不会这么想，但也许我错了。

English: have you let's go persuade him of this no let's but you and I should go let's go talk to him if we could try I I don't think he's going to see it the same way but maybe I'll be wrong was that always your always your thought by the way what

00:12:34 - 00:12:54

**中文：**你一直都是这么想的吗？顺便说一下，到目前为止我看到的是，他 比第一次的时候更冷静、更 自信、更 沉稳。嗯，我想问一个相关的 问题，我想 谈谈太空，但这其实是一个很 有趣的过渡，因为我们

English: but maybe I'll be wrong was that always your always your thought by the way what I've seen so far is that um he is calmer than he was the first time and more confident more settled um let me ask one related question that I want to actually get into space but it actually is an interesting segue to space because we were talking earlier this morning to Sam

00:12:54 - 00:13:15

**中文：**今天早上早些时候和萨姆· 阿尔曼谈到了埃隆·马斯克。马斯克 与总统的关系很 有意思，很多人都在 问，鉴于他与总统的密切关系，埃隆是否会给 他的竞争对手制造麻烦。埃隆 在太空领域是你最大的

English: interesting segue to space because we were talking earlier this morning to Sam Alman about Elon Musk um and Elon musk's relationship with the president interestingly and there's been a lot of questions about whether there could be the possibility that Elon given his proximity would make things difficult for people who are his competitors Elon in the space context is your biggest competitor yes does this concern

00:13:15 - 00:13:46

**中文：**竞争对手，是的，这让你担心吗？嗯，他们当然是非常优秀的 竞争对手。我的意思是，在这个领域……嗯，你 说他与总统的 密切关系让 你担心吗？不，我正要说这个。哦，我只是想说，他们当然是非常优秀的竞争对手，这一点毋庸置疑。嗯，我……我姑且相信之前所说的话，那就是他

English: in the space context is your biggest competitor yes does this concern you well they're certainly very able competitors I mean this is an arena where um saying does it concern you his proximity no I was headed there oh but I'm just saying they're they're certainly very good competitors and you know uh no doubt about that um uh I don't I I I take it face value um what has been said which is that you know he is not going to use his political power

00:13:46 - 00:14:11

**中文：**不会利用自己的政治影响力来 扶持自己的公司或打压 竞争对手。我 再次强调，我可能 错了，但 我认为这可能是真的。我认为他 可能正在努力……你知道，我 认为 他和维克正在 帮助特朗普提高政府效率等等。再说一遍，

English: has been said which is that you know he is not going to use his political power to Advantage his own companies or to disadvantage his competitors I think that it face value again I could be wrong about that but I I think it could be true I think he probably is trying to uh you know I think this department of government efficiency and that he and Vic are helping Trump with and so on again I'd like to take I have a lot of I've had a

00:14:11 - 00:14:21

**中文：**我 一生中取得了很多成功，我并不愤世嫉俗。

English: helping Trump with and so on again I'd like to take I have a lot of I've had a lot of success in life not being cynical and I've very rarely been taken advantage of as a

00:14:21 - 00:14:29

**中文：**因此，我很少被人占便宜，这种情况发生过几次，但并不频繁。

English: life not being cynical and I've very rarely been taken advantage of as a result it's happened a couple of times but not very often and I think that cynicism you know why

00:14:29 - 00:14:49

**中文：**我觉得这种愤世嫉俗……你知道，为什么 要愤世嫉俗呢？让我们继续深入探讨，希望已经 发表的声明是正确的，希望这件事能够光明正大地 进行，符合 公众利益。如果最终证明我的想法太天真，那我们就拭目以待。但我真的认为这会很棒。

English: but not very often and I think that cynicism you know why be cynical about that let's go into it hoping that the statements that have been made are correct that this is going to be done you know above board in the public interest and if that turns out to be naive well then we'll see but I I actually think it's going to be great be naive well then we'll see but I I actually think it's going to be great I'm

00:14:49 - 00:14:53

**中文：**我 希望……我很高兴你能谈到这个问题。

English: actually think it's going to be great I'm hoping I'm I'm glad you could address it uh it's something I think we all want to

00:14:53 - 00:14:59

**中文：**嗯，我想这是我们都想 知道的。顺便问一下，在我谈到 太空之前，我想问一个关于《华盛顿邮报》的问题，因为这里有很多媒体人士。

English: hoping I'm I'm glad you could address it uh it's something I think we all want to know one by the way before I even get to space uh Washington Post question just because there's a lot of media people here um the big plan to uh save or fix

00:14:59 - 00:15:24

**中文：**嗯，拯救或修复《 华盛顿邮报》的大计划是……你 在亚马逊 和其他领域都是一位伟大的创新者，你对《华盛顿邮报》将如何改变报纸行业有什么 宏大的想法吗？我 有很多想法，我 现在正在努力，我还有一些小的发明。

English: because there's a lot of media people here um the big plan to uh save or fix the Washington Post is you've been a great innovator as it comes to Amazon and everything else do you do you have a a big idea about how the post is going to change newspapers are going to change I have I have a bunch of ideas and and and I'm working on that right now and I have a couple of small inventions uh and I'm working on that right now and I have a couple of small inventions uh there so we'll see uh you know we saved

00:15:24 - 00:15:50

**中文：**我们拭目以待。你知道，我们拯救了《 华盛顿邮报》。这将是我 第二次拯救它。嗯，我想说的是，它上次被 拯救是在2013年，也就是11年前。当时花了几年时间，之后盈利了六七年，但在 过去的几年里，它又开始亏损了。它需要重新走上正轨。

English: have a couple of small inventions uh there so we'll see uh you know we saved the Washington Post mon this will be the second time I would um I'd like to it was saved let's see 2013 so 11 years ago it took a couple of years it made money for six or seven years after that in the last few years it's lost money again and um it needs to be put back on a good last few years it's lost money again and um it needs to be put back on a good footing again and um the first time we

00:15:50 - 00:16:12

**中文：**第一次我们成功拯救了它，方法是停止投放广告，改为 两种订阅模式，并且从 地方报纸转型为全国性 报纸。其中还有很多细节，但这便是基本模式，而且非常成功。

English: um it needs to be put back on a good footing again and um the first time we did it by transitioning away from advertis ing two subscriptions and also away from being a local paper to being a national paper and there are many more details to it but that was the basic formula that was used and it was very successful and uh we have a few other ideas so stay

00:16:12 - 00:16:30

**中文：**我们还有一些其他的想法，敬请 期待。好的。我的 问题是关于太空的。我 想我们很多人都看过你，就在 你卸任 亚马逊首席运营官几周后，你登上了 新谢泼德号，这是它的首次载人飞行。

English: was used and it was very successful and uh we have a few other ideas so stay tuned we'll see okay um here's my question to you about space which is I think a lot of us watched you this was weeks just weeks after you stepped down as a COO of Amazon uh you went aboard new Shepard uh as its first crew flight um and I remember watching it on TV just

00:16:30 - 00:16:46

**中文：**我记得当时和大家一样，在电视上观看了那次飞行，那是 2001年。我 知道 这是你从小就想做的事，我的意思是，我查阅了一些资料，发现有 文章 、信件，还有人说 你小时候就谈论过 这件事。所以我很好奇，

English: new Shepard uh as its first crew flight um and I remember watching it on TV just like everybody else this in 2001 and I know this is something you wanted to do literally since you were a kid I mean I went back and looked there were articles and letters and people who who said that when you were a child you were talking about this and so I was just curious if you could just take us back to that

00:16:46 - 00:16:56

**中文：**你能不能带我们回到那个 早晨，说说当时的感受，因为 你现在把所有的鸡蛋都放在了 太空篮子里？嗯，那是什么感觉？

English: about this and so I was just curious if you could just take us back to that morning and what that felt like because you have now put all of your eggs now in the space basket um and and what that what that was like and and how that

00:16:56 - 00:17:11

**中文：**它又是如何 改变你 对太空的看法的？你说把所有的鸡蛋都放在 太空篮子里？你是说你在 太空领域投入了巨资？是的，但 并不是我所有的鸡蛋都放在太空篮子里，不是全部。不，我仍然在亚马逊投入了大量资金，也仍然在那里投入了很多时间。

English: the space basket um and and what that what that was like and and how that might have even shifted your thinking about this what do youan put all my eggs in the space basket you mean you have a huge investment in space yes but it's not all my eggs not all of them yeah no I I still have a huge investment in Amazon I still spent a lot of time there I I still have a huge investment in Amazon I still spent a lot of time there too I've I've actually never worked

00:17:11 - 00:17:13

**中文：**事实上，我从来没有像现在这样努力工作过。

English: Amazon I still spent a lot of time there too I've I've actually never worked harder the this retirement thing I've

00:17:13 - 00:17:18

**中文：**我发现退休这件事对我来说 极其无聊。

English: too I've I've actually never worked harder the this retirement thing I've turned out to be extremely lame at um and so uh I'm I'm uh you know I'm waking

00:17:18 - 00:17:27

**中文：**所以，你知道，我 每天早上醒来都要开会，从早上9点到晚上7点，还要阅读文件。

English: turned out to be extremely lame at um and so uh I'm I'm uh you know I'm waking up every morning and and doing meetings from 9: to 7: and reading documents and uh I it most of it is blue origin but

00:17:27 - 00:17:39

**中文：**大部分工作都与蓝色起源有关，但也有 相当一部分与亚马逊有关。那天 早上，我们要去太空了。

English: from 9: to 7: and reading documents and uh I it most of it is blue origin but quite a bit of it is still Amazon too I um uh that quite a bit of it is still Amazon too I um uh that morning um we're going to space and uh and I'll tell you about the overview

00:17:39 - 00:17:47

**中文：**我会跟你们讲讲“概览 效应”，大家都知道。我们现在已经 发射了6%的“新谢泼德号”，我们的太空观光 飞船，它能把人送上太空。

English: morning um we're going to space and uh and I'll tell you about the overview effect which everyone goes we've now sent 6% new Shepherds our tourism vehicle it takes people up in space the whole journey takes 11 minutes you're in

00:17:47 - 00:18:03

**中文：**整个旅程需要11分钟，你在 太空停留4分钟。你会飞到 卡门线以上，也就是100公里高空，看到 地球的弧度，地球大气层的薄薄边缘。这真的是 一件改变人生、令人震撼的事情。

English: vehicle it takes people up in space the whole journey takes 11 minutes you're in space for four minutes um you go up above the Carmen line 100 km up you see the curvature of the Earth the thin limb of the Earth's atmosphere it truly is a lifechanging transformative thing every astronaut everybody who's ever

00:18:03 - 00:18:10

**中文：**每个宇航员，每个 去过太空的人都感受到了这种感觉，它有一个 名字，叫做“概览效应”。

English: a lifechanging transformative thing every astronaut everybody who's ever been to space has felt this and it has a name it's called the overview effect um Jim Lovel the uh Apollo 13

00:18:10 - 00:18:30

**中文：**阿波罗13号 宇航员、后来的登月宇航员吉姆·洛弗尔有一句 很美的话。你知道，当他 从太空看到地球时，他回头望去，说道：“我 意识到，你死后不会上天堂，你出生时就会上天堂。

English: name it's called the overview effect um Jim Lovel the uh Apollo 13 astronaut and later moon walker has a beautiful quote um you know when he saw the Earth from space he looked back and said I realize um you don't go to heaven when you die you go to heaven when you're born and that's how beautiful this

00:18:30 - 00:18:50

**中文：**这就是这颗 星球的美丽。”你可能看过威廉· 夏特纳乘坐“新谢泼德号”返回地球的视频，他看到了所有的一切，黑暗，以及…… 那里一片 虚无，他把它描述为 死亡，并说，看，这是 我们在整个太阳系中唯一一小片生命之池，

English: you die you go to heaven when you're born and that's how beautiful this planet is and you may have seen William Shatner when he flew on new Shepherd and he came back he saw everything the Blackness and how it's there's the nothingness and it he described it as death and said look this is the one little pool of life that we in this entire solar system it's truly

00:18:50 - 00:18:58

**中文：**真是 不可思议。你会明白，这是一种 难以言喻的深刻体验。

English: little pool of life that we in this entire solar system it's truly incredible and you get it is a profound uh experience that's hard to describe tribe but that morning something else

00:18:58 - 00:19:20

**中文：**那天早上，我经历了另一件非常 私人的事情。我们准备在 凌晨4点45分出发，你知道，我的 家人都在那里，一些亲密的 朋友和亲戚，大约有35到40人。

English: uh experience that's hard to describe tribe but that morning something else happened to me that is was very personal um we're getting ready to go at 4:45 in the morning and you know uh my whole family is there uh some close friends extended fam 35 40 people there and by the way I'm going on the first

00:19:20 - 00:19:43

**中文：**顺便说一下，我将乘坐 这艘飞行器进行首次载人飞行，它以前从未载过人。我 可怜的母亲，更糟糕的是，我还 带上了我的弟弟。所以，我和我弟弟，我们醒来 准备去发射场。

English: friends extended fam 35 40 people there and by the way I'm going on the first human flight of this vehicle and uh so it's never flown people before um and my poor mother uh what's worse is I'm bringing my brother with me so uh it's me and my brother and we wake up getting ready to go to the launch site and and kind of you know we weren't really

00:19:43 - 00:20:08

**中文：**你知道，我们其实并没有被 预料到，但每个人都 醒着，在那里和我们告别。他们 以为这是 永别，这让我很惊讶，我没想到会这样，但他们是 真心实意的。当时我非常 害怕，但 矛盾的是，我的兄弟姐妹们却

English: ready to go to the launch site and and kind of you know we weren't really expected but everybody of course is awake and there to say goodbye but they thought they were saying goodbye forever and which was surprising to me I I wasn't expecting this but they were genuinely terrified for us and but it was paradoxically for my brethen and it it felt really good to us because we got to

00:20:08 - 00:20:16

**中文：**感到很开心，因为我们 感受到了他们对我们的爱。

English: paradoxically for my brethen and it it felt really good to us because we got to see how loved we were and it was very you know my kids and my my sister and my

00:20:16 - 00:20:37

**中文：**你知道，我的孩子们、我的妹妹、 我的父母，还有这些亲密的 朋友，很容易就能了解 自己内心的想法，也很容易 知道自己爱着别人，但要知道别人 有多 爱自己却并不总是那么显而易见。所以，看到家人的

English: see how loved we were and it was very you know my kids and my my sister and my mom and my dad and um these close friends it it's easy to know what's going on inside your own head it's easy to know that you love people it's not really it's not to know how much you're loved by others is not always as obvious and to so to see that concern

00:20:37 - 00:21:02

**中文：**关心让我感到 非常温暖，非常感动。这是 一种意想不到的体验。虽然 我之前和宇航员交谈过，我知道这次太空之旅会很 特别，但能 感受到家人的这份爱真的很有趣。这是否 改变了 你对 蓝色起源公司所有工作的看法？

English: loved by others is not always as obvious and to so to see that concern was very meaningful very emotional that was a kind of an unexpected the overview expect I talked to astronauts I knew I was going to in store for something special but it was very interesting to have that feeling from my family too did that change the way you thought about everything you're doing with this with blue origin in terms of what this is all about you've said that the reason we've

00:21:02 - 00:21:19

**中文：**你曾说过，我们之所以 要去太空，是为了拯救 地球。你的想法是来自 太空的亲身经历，还是因为你当时正处于 青春期，所以才这样说的？

English: blue origin in terms of what this is all about you've said that the reason we've got to go to space in my view is to save Earth is that is that come from being up there and looking at that or was that something you were speaking about for whatever reason since I'm a teenager and in fact there's a high school newspaper

00:21:24 - 00:21:30

**中文：**我高中校报上曾 刊登过一篇关于我的 太空计划的文章，我当时跟所有愿意停下来听的人讲过。

English: article my Miami Palmetto Senior High the they they wrote an article about my space plans which I would tell everyone who would stand still long enough about and um th

00:21:37 - 00:21:46

**中文：**这些计划 包括……嗯，我至今仍在 努力的方向，那就是把所有 污染产业都迁出地球。

English: those plans included um what I still think what I am still working on which is moving all polluting industry off Earth and so my view but I know that sounds Fantastical

00:21:47 - 00:21:52

**中文：**我知道这听起来有点天方夜谭，所以……请各位 稍安勿躁，听我解释一下。

English: polluting industry off Earth and so my view but I know that sounds Fantastical so I I I I beg the Indulgence of this audience to bear with me for a moment

00:21:57 - 00:22:07

**中文：**但这并非天方夜谭，而是终将 实现的。我们需要降低 进入太空的成本，而这正是 新格伦轨道飞行器的意义所在。

English: but it's not Fantastical this is going to happen and we need to lower the cost of access to space low enough and that's what new Glenn our orbital Vehicles is all about um that's the big super heavy

00:22:07 - 00:22:26

**中文：**嗯，这就是重点。超重型 运载火箭现在已经架在发射 台上，等待监管部门的最终 批准。它需要获得最终的监管 批准才能发射，所以我们离目标非常非常 近了。如果我们能把 成本降到足够低的水平——当然，我们肯定能做到——我的意思是，这可能需要

English: what new Glenn our orbital Vehicles is all about um that's the big super heavy launch vehicle that's now it's literally on the pad now waiting for regulatory approval it needs its final regulatory approvals to to launch so we're very very close and uh if we can lower the costs enough and we will I mean it may take who knows how many years of it will

00:22:26 - 00:22:52

**中文：**很多年，谁也不知道，但我们可以创造 先决条件，让下一代 或下下代人 能够将轻工业转移到地球之外，这样 地球就能保持其应有的状态。你可以想象一下，地球可以划分成 住宅区和 轻工业区。如果你想消耗

English: costs enough and we will I mean it may take who knows how many years of it will take but we can set up the preconditions where the Next Generation or the generation after that will be able to move pling industry off Earth and then this planet will be maintained as it should be and you know can kind of be can sort of think of a zoned residential and Light Industry and if you want to use large amounts of energy and large

00:22:52 - 00:23:09

**中文：**大量的能源和 污染物等等，那就去 地球之外做。这样我们就能两全其美：既能拥有高能耗的文明，又能 人均消耗越来越多的能源，还能从中获得诸多 好处。顺便说一句，你肯定不想回到过去。

English: Light Industry and if you want to use large amounts of energy and large amounts of pollutants and so on you go do that off Earth and so we get the best of both we get to have this energy intensive civilization and use ever more energy per capita and get all the benefits that we get from that which are many by the way you don't want to go back in time and it's really important

00:23:14 - 00:23:23

**中文：**人们谈论过去的 美好时光，其实只是一种 错觉，这非常重要。我们几乎在所有方面都比过去 更好，比如 婴儿死亡率更低。

English: to think about you know when people talk about the good old days that is such an illusion you know that we're almost everything is better today than it was you know infant mortality is better you know Global illiteracy is better uh you

00:23:23 - 00:23:51

**中文：**全球文盲率有所下降，全球贫困状况也大大改善，如今一切都比以前好多了。嗯，有一个例外，那就是 自然界。如果 你回到500年前，我们拥有 纯净的海洋、河流和 森林。你知道，这是 我们所做交易的一部分：我们正在

English: you know infant mortality is better you know Global illiteracy is better uh you know Global poverty is far better every things really are better today um there's one exception to that which is the natural world the natural world if you go back in time 500 years we had pristine oceans pristine Rivers pristine forests and that is uh you know that's part of the trade we've made is we're kind of you know we're we're using up

00:23:51 - 00:24:15

**中文：**消耗 自然资源，但太空实际上拥有 无限的资源—— 无限的能量和无限的 原材料。这是一个非常 有趣的哲学选择，因为 你谈到要 拯救地球，而我本来 想说，包括马斯克在内的许多人都认为 我们需要一个逃离地球的“逃生舱”，

English: part of the trade we've made is we're kind of you know we're we're using up the natural world here but space has infinite for all practical purposes Infinite Energy infinite raw materials so that's it's a very interesting philosophical choice because one of the things you're talking about trying to save the Earth and I was going to say that a number of other people including I think musk and others say that we need an escape hatch from Earth right we need to all move to Mars

00:24:15 - 00:24:23

**中文：**我们需要全部移居火星，因为地球无法得救。你认为呢？不，我们必须这么做。

English: that we need an escape hatch from Earth right we need to all move to Mars because Earth is not going to be saved do you do you see that no we have to sa because Earth is not going to be saved do you do you see that no we have to sa so so first of all there is no plan B we

00:24:23 - 00:24:31

**中文：**首先，没有B计划，我们 必须拯救地球。所以我们已经向太阳系 中的所有行星发射了探测器。

English: do you do you see that no we have to sa so so first of all there is no plan B we have to save Earth so we've sent robotic probes to all of the planets in this solar system this is the good one um and

00:24:31 - 00:24:44

**中文：**嗯，不错，我们必须拯救它。我们不能袖手旁观，我们 可以生活，我们可以选择我们想要的 生活方式。

English: probes to all of the planets in this solar system this is the good one um and um and we must save it we cannot look we can live we can choose how we want to live we could it is not impossible if you think about climate change and so on

00:24:44 - 00:24:48

**中文：**想想气候变化等等，想想我们目前 面临的一些问题，这并非不可能。

English: live we could it is not impossible if you think about climate change and so on some of the issues that we Face here because of the way way we're doing

00:24:53 - 00:25:11

**中文：**你可以想象，如果 科技足够 发达，我们可以把地球变成一个 巨大的宇宙飞船，就像……你知道，就像…… 奇幻的……不，我知道……不，我 说的是空调星球，然后把 整个地球都铺上水泥，变成……那

English: things currently um you could imagine a world with enough technological sophistication where we can turn Earth sort of a giant spaceship you know like air Fantastical no I know air no but I'm saying air conditioned planet and you know kind of pave the whole thing and turn it that that's a bad future we don't need

00:25:11 - 00:25:31

**中文：**是一个糟糕的未来。我们不需要那样 做，把地球变成……你 知道，把整个地球变成 人类的构筑物，破坏 这个如此独特、如此珍贵的自然生态系统，那不是 正确的方式。所以我们应该把 所有东西都搬离地球，

English: turn it that that's a bad future we don't need to do that that turning Earth into you know take the whole thing and turning it into a human construct and destroying this natural ecosystem when it's so unique and such a gym that's not the right way to to do it so we should move all that off Earth and and and we will because we won't do

00:25:31 - 00:25:35

**中文：**而且我们会这样做，因为我们不会用 错误的方式去做。你知道为什么吗？

English: all that off Earth and and and we will because we won't do it the wrong way and you know why we won't because humans

00:25:35 - 00:25:47

**中文：**因为人类 珍视美和艺术。我在西德克萨斯州有一个牧场，那里也是亚 轨道飞行器的发射场。

English: it the wrong way and you know why we won't because humans Value Beauty and art I have a ranch in West Texas it's actually also where the launch site for the suborbital vehicle is the and on that ranch you can in many

00:25:47 - 00:26:17

**中文：**在很多 不同的地方，你都可以找到 箭头和古代 陶器，有些陶器甚至有7000 年的历史。你知道，那 是一个极其艰苦的生存 环境，而这些陶器上却 装饰着图案。这些人生活 在沙漠环境中，为了

English: launch site for the suborbital vehicle is the and on that ranch you can in many different places you can go and find uh uh you know arrowheads and ancient pottery and some of the Pottery is 7,000 years old and it is you know and that was a Hard Scrabble subsistence level life and that Pottery is decorated so here are these people who are in a desert environment scraping for water food and yet they're taking the

00:26:17 - 00:26:23

**中文：**水和食物苦苦挣扎，却仍然抽出 时间来绘制陶器。

English: are in a desert environment scraping for water food and yet they're taking the time to paint their Pottery what does that tell you about our values and what

00:26:23 - 00:26:42

**中文：**这说明了我们人类的价值观是什么？我们 人类 重视美和艺术。我们不会 毁灭这个星球。嗯，我再问你 两个相关的太空问题。去年秋天我有 机会去蓝色起源公司参观，那里每个人都在谈论 登月并

English: time to paint their Pottery what does that tell you about our values and what we you know humans Value Beauty and art we're not going to destroy this planet um let me ask you two other related space questions I had the opportunity to go tore blue origin uh in the fall and one of the things that everybody down there talks about is this idea of going getting the moon and then using the moon in fact the phrase

00:26:43 - 00:27:02

**中文：**利用月球的想法。事实上，你的一位同事说过这样一句话：我们将利用月球，月球将像 肯尼迪机场一样，因为我们将向 月球运送物资，然后从月球出发…… 火星就像 旅途中的一个中途站，我 觉得这种想法很

English: this idea of going getting the moon and then using the moon in fact the phrase that one of your colleagues said was uh we're going to use the Moon the Moon is going to be like JFK uh the airport because no like JFK the airport because we're going to send stuff to the moon and then from the Moon then we're going to go to Mars it's like a pit stop on the along the way and I thought that was sort of a very interesting uh yeah thought process

00:27:02 - 00:27:13

**中文：**有意思。月球是通往 太阳系其他星球的绝佳跳板，这确实是一个很有说服力的论点。

English: thought that was sort of a very interesting uh yeah thought process there's a very strong argument to be made that the Moon is a good stepping stone to the rest of the solar system and the reason for that because of the

00:27:13 - 00:27:45

**中文：**原因在于 月球的重力 比地球小得多，而且它富含 重要的矿物质，月球两极永久阴影区的陨石坑中 还蕴藏着冰形式的水。冰 可以转化为水，水可以 转化为氢气和氧气，而氢气和氧气恰好是性能 最佳的火箭推进剂。

English: stone to the rest of the solar system and the reason for that because of the moon is has a much much lower gravity level than the earth and because it has a lot of very important minerals and also water in the form of ice in the permanently shadowed craters at the poles of the Moon and ice can be uh uh converted water can be converted into hydrogen and oxygen which are happen to be the very best uh highest performing rocket propellants and so you can uh it takes you to raise a kilogram of Mass from the Earth takes

00:27:50 - 00:28:10

**中文：**从地球上发射一公斤物体所需的 能量是 从月球发射同样重量物体的28倍。因此，如果 我们能够从月球获取原材料（当然，这还需要 几代人的时间），那么 这些原材料将使 我们能够建造宇宙飞船并为

English: a kilogram of Mass from the Earth takes 28 times as much energy as raising that same kilogram from the moon so to the degree that you can get raw materials from the Moon which is again we're talking about a couple of generations in the future but to the degree that you can get raw materials from the Moon instead of from Earth those materials will allow you to build spaceships and to fuel those spaceships and to build

00:28:10 - 00:28:23

**中文：**它们提供燃料。建造宇宙飞船、 太阳能电池板以及所有 你想做的其他事情，但使用月球 资源而不是地球资源，这将为探索太阳系其他地区提供一个非常便捷的 跳板。

English: will allow you to build spaceships and to fuel those spaceships and to build solar arrays and all these other things that you want to do but using lunar resources instead of Earth Resources and then it would provide a very convenient stepping stone to the rest of the solar system um Dave limp who just hired uh to

00:28:23 - 00:28:43

**中文：**嗯，戴夫·林普，他刚刚聘请 你来运营蓝色起源，担任 首席执行官。显然，他在 面试你的时候问你：“杰夫，蓝色起源是你的爱好还是一项事业？” 你是怎么回答的？“这是一项事业，虽然目前还不是一项非常好的事业。”

English: stepping stone to the rest of the solar system um Dave limp who just hired uh to uh to run blue origin for you um as a CEO said apparently when he was interviewing with you he said Jeff is blue origin a hobby or a business yeah what did you tell them it's a business it's it's not a very good business yet how big a business inves look I think

00:28:43 - 00:29:00

**中文：**投资规模看起来有多大？我认为，从商业角度来看，从 财务回报的角度来看，它将是 我参与过的最好的事业，但这需要 一段时间。比亚马逊还要大。是的，那么我问你 另一个问题，我记得我曾经在那里，那里的

English: it's it's not a very good business yet how big a business inves look I think it's going to be um I think it's going to be from a business point of view from a financial returns point of view I think it's going to be the best business that I've ever been involved in but it's going to take a while so bigger than Amazon yeah so let me ask you a different question which is I remember just being down there the scale of

00:29:00 - 00:29:20

**中文：**规模之大，我真希望你们都能 去看看，它太壮观了。你 看着那规模，甚至无法 理解周围发生的一切。这一切规模之大，简直 难以想象，这让我 想到自信。我们 今天早些时候和塞雷娜·威廉姆斯聊过自信，我当时就在

English: different question which is I remember just being down there the scale of everything I wish I I wish you could all just go and see it is so remarkable you sort of look at the scale and you can't even understand what is happening around you it's sort of so hard to Fathom uh just the size of it all and it made me think um about confidence we were actually talking to Serena Williams earlier today about confidence and I was thinking to myself it's easy for her you

00:29:20 - 00:29:32

**中文：**想，对她来说这很容易，你 只需要成为世界第一就行了。但是，这也同样适用于 你，你知道，当你刚加入 亚马逊时，那是一家必须 扩张的公司，你必须亲眼见证这种规模才能成功。

English: earlier today about confidence and I was thinking to myself it's easy for her you just has to be the best in the world well but and but this is going to go to you too which is you know when you start at Amazon that was a business that had to scale and you had to see the scale to work I remember for years I I was

00:29:32 - 00:29:43

**中文：**我记得有好几年，我一直在报道亚马逊，写到 你们一直在亏损，每个人都觉得这一切太 疯狂了，我们 亏损了11年，亏损的规模之大，人们觉得简直不可思议。

English: to scale and you had to see the scale to work I remember for years I I was covering it I would be writing about when you were losing money left and right in center everyone thought this whole thing is crazy and the scale we lost money for 11 years the scale of it it people think I thought it was insane yes and if you go down to Florida to

00:29:43 - 00:30:00

**中文：**是的，如果你去佛罗里达的 卡纳瓦尔角，亲眼看看这一切的规模，你会惊呼：我的天哪，这太 疯狂了！汤姆·布罗亚曾经采访我 关于亚马逊亏损的问题，他 看着我说：“ 贝佐斯先生，您能拼出‘

English: it people think I thought it was insane yes and if you go down to Florida to Cape canaval and you see the scale of this thing you say to my God this is insane Tom broa interviewed me one time about Amazon's losses and he said he looked at me and he said you can Mr Bezos can you even spell profit and I said yes p r o p h e t so

00:30:00 - 00:30:20

**中文：**利润’这个词吗？”我说：“是的，‘利润’。”所以，你 觉得你的自信在哪里？之所以要 创建一个需要如此 大规模的企业，大多数人喜欢 迈出一步，然后迈出另 一步，他们希望能够 看到自己前进的方向。但我认为，以

English: Bezos can you even spell profit and I said yes p r o p h e t so where do you think that where do you think your confidence though comes from to create a business that requires such scale most people like to you know they take one foot and they put the other foot and then then they and they want to be able to see where they're going and I would argue with in in the case of

00:30:24 - 00:30:31

**中文：**亚马逊为例，以 太空探索为例，你无法看到自己的方向。我的意思是，也许 你能看到方向，但很多 人实际上很难看清。

English: Amazon in the case of space you can't see where I mean maybe you can see where you're going but a lot of people actually struggle to see it well I

00:30:37 - 00:30:43

**中文：**首先，这是一个非常好的问题，非常 有趣的问题。我不确定我是否 知道正确答案，或许有 很多答案。那么，我们就从这个问题开始吧。

English: think I first of very good question very interesting question and I'm not sure I know the right answer or maybe there are many answers so let's start with that but I one observation I would have is

00:30:43 - 00:30:59

**中文：**我的一个观察是，我认为 高估风险、低估 机会通常是人之常情。

English: many answers so let's start with that but I one observation I would have is that I think it's generally human nature to overestimate risk and underestimate opportunity and so I think entrepreneurs in general

00:30:59 - 00:31:31

**中文：**因此，我认为企业家最好 努力 克服这种 人性弱点。风险可能没有 你想象的那么大，而机会 可能比你想象的更大。所以，当 你谈到 自信时，也许只是在 试图弥补这种人性弱点。承认这是人之常情，并 努力克服它。

English: opportunity and so I think entrepreneurs in general uh you know would be well advised to try and bias against that piece of human nature the risks are probably not as big as you perceive and the opportunities may be bigger than you perceive and so you're when you look at when you you say it's confidence but maybe it's just trying to compensate for that that um accepting that that's a human bias and trying to compensate for that that um accepting that that's a human bias and trying to compensate against it the second thing I would point out is that

00:31:31 - 00:31:38

**中文：**第二点 我想指出的是，你知道，目光短浅是一种 自我实现的 预言。那么，你觉得你是什么时候明白这个道理的呢？

English: trying to compensate against it the second thing I would point out is that you know thinking small is a self-fulfilling prophecy now when do you think you learned this though because you were

00:31:38 - 00:31:42

**中文：**因为你 很年轻的时候就开始做这件事了。

English: prophecy now when do you think you learned this though because you were doing this at a very young age I this is not something this is something maybe a

00:31:42 - 00:32:00

**中文：**这或许是一位 睿智长者才会说的话，但我之所以这么 说，是因为我记得 很早的时候，我在《 60分钟》节目上看到过你，大概是 1999年吧。在采访的最后，他们问你 这件事是否可行。

English: doing this at a very young age I this is not something this is something maybe a wise and old man would say but I I I only say because I remember it's very early I remember watching I remember watching on 60 Minutes um this is maybe 1999 and at the end of the interview um they were asking asking you about whether this whole thing could work or not um and you said it is it it's not a

00:32:00 - 00:32:05

**中文：**你说，这不是 害怕它行不通，而是它有可能行不通，对吧？没错，确实如此。

English: whether this whole thing could work or not um and you said it is it it's not a fear that it can't work it's a fact that it might not work right that is

00:32:13 - 00:32:35

**中文：**但我记得当时我在 想，你当时是以一种非常坦诚的 方式表达的，也就是说，你当时是不是对自己说，这件事很可能不会成功？为了 筹集 亚马逊的第一笔100万美元种子资金，我以500万美元的估值出售了公司20%的股份。

English: true and no no but I remember I remember seeing that thinking and you just said it in the sort of matter OFA kind of way which is to say did you say to yourself there's a massive risk this is not really going to happen I to to raise the first million dollars of seed capital for Amazon so I I sold um 20% of the company at a $5 million valuation I sold 20% of the company for a million dollars company at a $5 million valuation I sold 20% of the company for a million dollars to 22 Angel Investors 50 roughly $50,000

00:32:35 - 00:33:08

**中文：**22位天使投资人，每人大约投资5万美元，我得 参加60场会议。结果，大概40位拒绝了，只有20到22位左右同意了。这大概 是我做过的最难的事，那 1995年。第一个问题就是“ 什么是互联网？”每个人都想

English: 20% of the company for a million dollars to 22 Angel Investors 50 roughly $50,000 each and I had to take 60 meetings so whatever you know roughly 40 of them said no and and a little 20 20 22 or so said yes and um it was the hardest thing I've ever done Bas this was 1995 is 1995 and um the first question was what's the internet everybody wanted to know what the internet was and by the

00:33:08 - 00:33:30

**中文：**知道互联网是 什么。那40个拒绝都是我辛辛苦苦挣来的，不仅仅是拒绝，而是我开了无数次会议，费尽心思地想让他们签下那5万美元的支票。当时整个项目差点就失败了。我 记得在会议上，我 总是告诉他们，我认为

English: what's the internet everybody wanted to know what the internet was and by the the 40 NOS were hard-earned notes like they weren't just no they were me you know multiple meetings working really hard trying to get people to write that $50,000 check and the whole Enterprise could have been extinguished then and what I do remember in the meetings I would always tell people I thought there was a 70% chance they would lose their

00:33:30 - 00:33:49

**中文：**他们有70%的概率会损失 投资。现在回想起来，我当时 可能有点 天真，但我当时觉得，如果非要说的话，那就是我估计的概率比 实际情况要高得多。

English: always tell people I thought there was a 70% chance they would lose their investment and I in in retrospect I think that might have been a little naive um but I thought but I think it was true in fact if anything I think I was giving myself better than better than the odds better than the real odds what do you think the real odds are in

00:33:49 - 00:33:53

**中文：**你觉得实际情况会怎样？很有可能，蓝色起源在太空领域取得成功。

English: than the odds better than the real odds what do you think the real odds are in space with blue origin well blue origin is um H you know has doesn't have the

00:33:53 - 00:34:02

**中文：**嗯，你知道，蓝色起源的 融资风险没有那么高。

English: space with blue origin well blue origin is um H you know has doesn't have the same level of financing risk so uh you know because I can Finance blue origin

00:34:02 - 00:34:19

**中文：**因为我可以用 我的亚马逊股票为蓝色起源融资，所以我 认为蓝色起源还有很大的发展空间，它将在 这里做出一些非常了不起的事情。

English: same level of financing risk so uh you know because I can Finance blue origin um with my Amazon stock so it's it I think am blue origin has a lot of Runway blue origin is going to do some very amazing things here and and uh it's you know and by the way Amazon is doing

00:34:19 - 00:34:42

**中文：**顺便说一句，亚马逊也在做一些 了不起的事情。我昨天看到了我们的一些 公告，希望你们喜欢。你 知道，Nova 基础模型真的非常 不可思议。你知道，现在有很多 事情正在发生，世界现在非常有趣，我们同时处于多个黄金时代。你知道，我对机器人技术也很感兴趣。

English: amazing things here and and uh it's you know and by the way Amazon is doing amazing things I saw some of our announcements yesterday I hope but you know the the Nova foundational models are truly incredible they're I you know it's there's a bunch of stuff going on the world is so interesting right now we're in multiple Golden Ages at once the world is so interesting right now we're in multiple Golden Ages at once and you know I'm also very interested in we're in multiple Golden Ages at once and you know I'm also very interested in robotics I'm I'm not doing that directly

00:34:42 - 00:35:04

**中文：**我没有直接从事机器人业务，但我正在投资 一些机器人公司。我非常 相信机器人技术，我认为我们 生活在一个前所未有的非凡时代，我们非常幸运。我想 回到亚马逊的话题，在你 整个亚马逊职业生涯中，在我看来，

English: and you know I'm also very interested in robotics I'm I'm not doing that directly but I'm doing it I'm investing in a number of Robotics companies I'm a big believer in it that I think there's never been a more extraordinary moment to be alive we're so lucky I want to go back to Amazon for is throughout your whole career at Amazon it appears to me like you paid yourself about $80,000 a

00:35:04 - 00:35:34

**中文：**你给自己支付了大约 每年总共8万美元的 现金补偿，我从未 获得过公司额外的股权，真的，我从来没有。我 要求董事会的薪酬委员会 不要给我任何补偿。我的 想法是，作为 创始人，我已经 拥有公司相当一部分股份，

English: whole career at Amazon it appears to me like you paid yourself about $80,000 a year in total yeah cash comp and never took additional equity in the company the entire time no I never did and I asked the comp Committee of the board not to give me any comp and I the my view was was I was a Founder I had I already owned a significant amount of the company and I just didn't feel good

00:35:34 - 00:36:06

**中文：**我觉得 再拿更多不太合适。我觉得我已经有足够的 动力了，你知道，我拥有 超过10%的公司股份，更早的时候，在被 各种因素稀释之前，我拥有超过20% 的股份。我觉得 我还需要什么 动力呢？你知道，

English: owned a significant amount of the company and I just didn't feel good about taking more I felt um I had plenty of incentive it was you know I owned you know more than 10% of the company you know more earlier you know before it was diluted by various things more than 20% of the company and it was I just felt how could I possibly need more incentive than owning such a you know most Founders own big chunks of the

00:36:06 - 00:36:27

**中文：**大多数创始人都拥有公司的大量股份，他们其实并不需要更多，他们更像是 所有者兼经营者。他们 增加财富的方式不是通过获得 补偿，也不是通过获得更多股权，他们只是 想让自己的股权更 有价值。所以，我从来没有……我会觉得很别扭。我真的为这个决定感到非常自豪。

English: incentive than owning such a you know most Founders own big chunks of the company they don't really need they're more like owner operators the way they increase their wealth is not by getting comp you know more Equity they just want to make the equity they have more valuable and uh and so I never I I just would have felt icky about it and I valuable and uh and so I never I I just would have felt icky about it and I really I'm actually very proud of that would have felt icky about it and I really I'm actually very proud of that decision I I I sometimes wish that there

00:36:27 - 00:36:49

**中文：**我有时希望…… 也许你可以试试，安德鲁。也许《华盛顿邮报》会 做这个，但确实需要有人做一个 榜单，根据人们 为他人创造的财富多少来排名。这样就不用像 福布斯那样，根据个人财富来排名了。比如说，

English: really I'm actually very proud of that decision I I I sometimes wish that there were a um and maybe you can do this Andrew or maybe the Washington Post will do this but somebody needs to make a list where they rank people by how much wealth they've created for other people and so instead of the Forbes list it ranks you by your own wealth so you know Amazon's market cap is 2.3 trillion

00:36:49 - 00:36:58

**中文：**亚马逊目前的市值是2.3万亿美元，我持有其中大约2000亿美元的股份。

English: it ranks you by your own wealth so you know Amazon's market cap is 2.3 trillion today I own about you know 200 billion is of it so if you take 2.3 billion and

00:36:58 - 00:37:09

**中文：**如果用2.3亿美元 减去我给自己留下的那部分，那么我为他人创造了大约 2.1万亿美元的财富。

English: today I own about you know 200 billion is of it so if you take 2.3 billion and subtract out the piece I kept from myself then you know I've created something like 2.1 trillion of wealth for other people that should put me

00:37:09 - 00:37:22

**中文：**这应该能让我排 在某个 榜单的前列。嗯，这才是更好的榜单。你 知道吗？你 为他人创造了多少财富？

English: something like 2.1 trillion of wealth for other people that should put me pretty high on some kind of list and uh and that's a better list you know what uh how much wealth have you created for other people you know people like Jensen Nvidia he's going to be very

00:37:22 - 00:37:41

**中文：**像詹森·英伟达这样的人，他的 排名肯定会非常靠前。嗯，这会是一个 很棒的榜单，应该有人做这个 榜单。我觉得这很棒。你 如何看待 自己的影响力？你会 思考这个问题吗？你是否意识到 自己是世界上最有影响力的

English: created for other people you know people like Jensen Nvidia he's going to be very high on that list and uh that would be pretty cool list somebody should do that list I think that is a very cool list how does that how does the idea of your own influence sit with you do you do you think about that do you appreciate that that you are one of the most powerful people in the world frankly given your

00:37:42 - 00:37:58

**中文：**人之一？坦白说，考虑到你与 亚马逊的关系，以及你 为蓝色起源所做的一切。考虑到 你投资的其他所有事情，以及你可以做洗衣工作，你知道，我 不这么认为，这是一个合理的问题，但我 不会那样想。

English: that you are one of the most powerful people in the world frankly given your connections to Amazon given what you're doing with blue origin given all the other things that you're investing in and can do the washing post you know I don't it's it's a fair question but I don't I don't think think about it that way I don't wake up and think you know

00:37:58 - 00:38:18

**中文：**我不会醒来就想，你知道，我今天该如何运用我的力量，你知道，嗯，我醒来后会 追随我的好奇心，我一直是个 漫游者，嗯，我甚至这样组织我们的 亚马逊会议：我 想要清晰的文件，但会议却很混乱，

English: don't I don't think think about it that way I don't wake up and think you know how am I going to exercise my power today you know um it's it's I wake up and follow my curiosity I've always been a Wanderer and uh I even organize our you know our Amazon meetings are this way I want crisp documents and messy meetings and I want the meetings to wander uh the

00:38:18 - 00:38:40

**中文：**我希望会议漫无目的。嗯，我唯一准时的会议是我的 第一个会议，因为我不会在 真正结束之前结束一个会议，你B，那 其他人怎么办？他们得等 我，但是，你知道，这，嗯，你 知道，但是，实际上，我会，

English: want crisp documents and messy meetings and I want the meetings to wander uh the only meeting I'm ever on time to is my first one because I won't finish a meeting until I'm really finished you B what about everybody else they have to wait for me but but that you know this is um uh you know it's but I and I actually it would and I I try to teach like really wand in

00:38:40 - 00:38:58

**中文：**我试图在会议中真正地教导，有些类型的 会议，比如每周的业务 回顾之类的，就像一个 固定的模式，你会按照它进行，它 可以有议程，而且可以 非常清晰。那是一种不同的 会议方式，但 我们大多数有用的会议都是这样进行的：先写六页

English: know it's but I and I actually it would and I I try to teach like really wand in the meetings there's certain kinds of meetings that are like a weekly Business review or something where it's like a set pattern and you're going through it that can have an agenda and it could be very Crisp that's a different kind of meeting but most of the meetings that are useful we do we do these six-page memos we do half hour study hall we read

00:38:58 - 00:39:13

**中文：**备忘录，然后进行半小时的自习，阅读备忘录，最后进行一场混乱的 讨论。所以我觉得备忘录应该 像天使从高处俯瞰一样 清晰明了，而 会议本身却可能很混乱——到底能有多混乱？

English: are useful we do we do these six-page memos we do half hour study hall we read them and then and then we have a messy discussion so I like a the memo should be like Angels seeing up from high it's so clear and beautiful and then the meeting could be messy how messy can it be and completely no no I asked that

00:39:13 - 00:39:21

**中文：**完全不，不，我这么问是 因为在目前的文化背景下，在座的各位都参加过 会议，我们不知道会议会有多混乱。

English: meeting could be messy how messy can it be and completely no no I asked that because culturally right now and there's so many people in the room here who go to meetings and we don't know how messy they can be no I I mean that because you

00:39:21 - 00:39:37

**中文：**我的意思是，因为你 不知道你是否真的可以 举手说“完全，这个想法 完全疯狂”，事实上，如果会议不混乱，我非常怀疑，这种情况很少 发生，因为这在某种程度上是禁忌。

English: to meetings and we don't know how messy they can be no I I mean that because you don't know whether you really can raise your hand and say this totally this idea completely insane anden in fact I am very skeptical if the meeting is not messy it one time it doesn't happen very often because it's kind of verboten uh but I could I could tell in the meeting

00:39:37 - 00:40:00

**中文：**但是，我能感觉到，在会议上，团队已经排练过这种会议，我 能 感觉到，我能分辨出一些 细微的线索，然后我转向 他们问：“你们觉得呢？” 排练一下这个 会议，他们就说，嗯，是的，我就说，别再那样做了，你

English: often because it's kind of verboten uh but I could I could tell in the meeting that the team had rehearsed the meeting that happens and I would and I I I could just feel it like I could you can tell the little tiny cues and I I turned to them said did you guys rehearse this meeting and they're like uh yes I was like don't do that again you don't need to because here's what maybe

00:40:00 - 00:40:19

**中文：**不需要那样做，因为是这样的，也许 你会排练销售会议，对吧？如果 你 要去拜访客户，想向他们推销新 产品之类的，你可能想把一切都安排妥当，想展现自己最好的一面。但 人们就是这样，你追求的是

English: yes I was like don't do that again you don't need to because here's what maybe you would rehearse a sales meeting right if you're going you know if if you're going to go visit you know a a customer and you're trying to sell them a new product or something maybe you want to have all your ducks in a row and you want to put your best foot forward but that's what people do you're seeking truth not not a pitch I don't want to be

00:40:19 - 00:40:26

**中文：**真相，而不是推销。我不想被 推销，你也不想让你的任何 高管被推销。

English: that's what people do you're seeking truth not not a pitch I don't want to be pitched and you don't want any of your senior Executives to be pitched you want and that's why why messy is good and and

00:40:26 - 00:40:43

**中文：**这就是为什么混乱反而有益。而且，你还要提前到场，你不想让所有事情都 安排好，然后再呈给你看，对吧？你想参与 制作香肠，让我看看那些不尽如人意的部分。

English: senior Executives to be pitched you want and that's why why messy is good and and uh and you also want to be early it's like you don't want the whole thing to be figured out and then presented to you right like you want to be part of the sausage making like show me the ugly bits like and I always ask you know are

00:40:43 - 00:40:54

**中文：**我总是问，团队里有没有人持不同意见？我想 弄清楚争议点是什么。

English: sausage making like show me the ugly bits like and I always ask you know are there any dissenting opinions on the team you know who what you I want to try to get to the controversy like what let's make this meeting messy help me

00:40:54 - 00:41:12

**中文：**咱们把这次会议搞得一团糟吧，帮帮我，帮我把它搞得一团糟。嗯，你离开亚马逊有多难？我最后一个发言。哦，是的，大家都听说过，我们 尽量按资历顺序发言，资历 最浅的人先发言，资历 最深的人最后发言。这

English: to get to the controversy like what let's make this meeting messy help me help me make it messy um how hard was it for you to leave Amazon I go last too oh you yes heard about this everybody we try to go in kind of seniority order so the most Junior person goes first the most senior person goes last and it helps with group think because if you

00:41:12 - 00:41:28

**中文：**有助于群体思维，因为如果你 说“接下来会发生什么”，如果你已经有了自己的 想法，那该怎么办？嗯，我不想折磨 别人，所以在极少数情况下，如果我 真的知道没有什么能改变我的 想法，我会说：“听着，伙计们，这里没有什么

English: most senior person goes last and it helps with group think because if you say what's going to happen What happens if you have already come up with your view though well I don't want to torture people so in that rare case where I actually know that nothing can change my mind I will just say look guys nothing here is going to change my mind so like

00:41:28 - 00:41:40

**中文：**能改变我的想法，所以我们 不要浪费太多时间了。”我不想这样，这不 应该是一场 闹剧。嗯，但是，这种情况非常罕见。

English: mind I will just say look guys nothing here is going to change my mind so like let's not waste a lot of time I don't want to it shouldn't be a charade um but in but that those aren't that's a very rare case I've I'm actually personally very easy to

00:41:40 - 00:41:55

**中文：**实际上，我个人很容易被 影响。我后来才意识到这一点，大概从 十年前开始，我意识到我是一个很 容易被影响的人。我经常改变 主意，你知道，人们跟我说话，我吸收信息，然后我很容易 改变主意，但只有

English: that's a very rare case I've I'm actually personally very easy to influence something I've realized later in my life over just maybe starting 10 years ago or so I realized I'm a very easy person to influence I changed my mind a lot you know people talk to me and I take in the information and I to change I can be easily but a couple of percent of the time no Force in the

00:41:55 - 00:41:59

**中文：**百分之几的可能。有时候，世界上没有任何力量 能动摇我，因为我对某件事非常确信。

English: change I can be easily but a couple of percent of the time no Force in the world can move me because I'm so sure of something there were you know I I can't

00:41:59 - 00:42:11

**中文：**你知道，我无法 告诉你，有多少人试图劝 我放弃亚马逊物流，但我就是知道，我当时就想，你们永远也劝不动我。

English: world can move me because I'm so sure of something there were you know I I can't tell you how many people tried to talk me out of fulfillment by Amazon as an example and I just I just knew and I was like you guys you will never talk me out of this do you think we're going to do

00:42:11 - 00:42:20

**中文：**你们觉得我们能做到吗？我会凭借强大的 意志力做到，必要时我也会这么做。你们觉得你们 有这种意志力吗？这其实是 很多人都会遇到的问题。

English: like you guys you will never talk me out of this do you think we're going to do this I will do this through sheer force of will if need be do you think that you have that this is actually um something that I think a lot of people contend with do you think you have to project

00:42:20 - 00:42:49

**中文：**你们觉得必须表现得 自信吗？不，我不这么认为。更确切地说，随着年龄的增长，大概是过去的10到15 年，我的成长经历让我更加坚定。我的 家人非常支持我，但是我们家也有 一些不成文的规矩，我想

English: that I think a lot of people contend with do you think you have to project confidence no I I don't more intimate I would say in the last you know as I've gotten older so maybe the last 10 or 15 years and uh my my in my my upbringing I have you know I I have really supportive family and um but in our family there were some unspoken rules which I think probably most families have unspoken

00:42:49 - 00:43:04

**中文：**大多数家庭或多或少都有一些不成文的 规矩。在 我的家庭里，所有积极的情绪都被 大声表达出来，比如乐观、 快乐等等。

English: were some unspoken rules which I think probably most families have unspoken rules of one kind or another and in mine uh all the positive emotions were loud optimism you know happiness joy uh and but only really the only negative

00:43:04 - 00:43:33

**中文：**但只有一种负面 情绪是被 容忍的。家庭内部的 互动模式是无声的，只有偶尔才会出现 愤怒、悲伤、恐惧和 焦虑之类的情绪，这些都被轻视了。从 某种程度上来说，这可能 对创办公司很有帮助。你知道，

English: joy uh and but only really the only negative emotion that was kind of tolerated in that unspoken family Dynamic and only occasionally was anger sadness fear uh anxiety these things were looked down on and that's probably in a in a scheme of things kind of probably pretty helpful for founding a company you know it's like you you probably mostly want

00:43:33 - 00:43:41

**中文：**你大概总是想 专注于积极的事情，你需要乐观。

English: helpful for founding a company you know it's like you you probably mostly want to be focused on positive things anyway um and you need optimism you know without optimism optimism and energy I

00:43:41 - 00:44:00

**中文：**没有乐观和活力，我 不知道一个像伊尔一样阴郁的 创始人怎么能带领公司走向 成功。我的意思是，你必须要有 乐观，你必须要有活力，这种活力必须具有 感染力。你会遇到 很多糟糕的日子，你必须鼓舞人心。所以你需要

English: um and you need optimism you know without optimism optimism and energy I don't know how how some glum Eeyore type founder could ever lead a company to success I mean you got to have some optimism you got to have some energy it's got to be a little contagious there's going to be a lot of bad days you got to lift people up um so you need that um but what you what I have figured

00:44:00 - 00:44:24

**中文：**这些。但是，在 过去的一段时间里，尤其是从我自己的家庭开始，从我与家人、 孩子、兄弟姐妹、 父母等等的亲密关系开始，我发现，如果 我不和他们分享我的悲伤、 恐惧或其他类似的感受，我就无法真正与他们建立亲密关系。

English: you got to lift people up um so you need that um but what you what I have figured out over the last you know as sort of like especially I started with my own family uh and my close relationships my children and my brother and sister and parents and so on is I realized like I'm not really being intimate with them if I'm not sharing when I'm sad or sharing when I'm scared or these kinds of things and so I started working on that uh with

00:44:24 - 00:44:34

**中文：**所以我开始和 他们一起研究这个问题，发现这很有意义，它极大地加深了我们之间的 关系。

English: when I'm scared or these kinds of things and so I started working on that uh with them and found it very meaningful like it deepened those relationships very significantly and then I

00:44:34 - 00:45:01

**中文：**然后我 意识到，这些情绪在工作中也是合理的。结果发现，它们其实更精准。你所有的 情绪都像是一个预警 系统。你知道，如果你感到压力，对 我来说，这就像一个早期 雷达，它探测到我 没有采取

English: relationships very significantly and then I realized those were valid emotions at work too and so it's it turns out like they're more precise all of your emotions are sort of a early warning system you know if you're stressed for me that's a a kind of an early you know a radar that is detecting that I'm there's something I'm not taking action on there's it's a it's a it's an

00:45:01 - 00:45:18

**中文：**行动。这是一个 重要的 指标。事实 证明，如果你把 所有的负面情绪都转化为 偶尔的沮丧、 愤怒或其他类似的情绪，你就无法精准地处理问题。

English: I'm there's something I'm not taking action on there's it's a it's a it's an important indicator and and it turns out if you're if you're channeling all of your negative emotions into occasional into frustration or anger or something like that you're you're not being very precise and it's much

00:45:23 - 00:45:32

**中文：**现在好多了。比如，我会参加 一个会议，听一会儿，轮到我 发言时，我会说 我很害怕。这更有效。

English: better now like I've had you know I'll have a meeting and listens for a while and when it's my turn to talk I'll say I'm scared and that's more effective people are like you're what are you

00:45:32 - 00:45:40

**中文：**人们会问：“你害怕什么？” 然后你就可以开始讨论是 什么让你 害怕。这样，你们的关系会更加紧密。

English: I'm scared and that's more effective people are like you're what are you scared of and then you can start talk about okay what is what's making you scared that's um you get more in touch to actually help you probably not just

00:45:41 - 00:46:01

**中文：**实际上，这可能不仅对你 的家庭关系和亲密 关系有帮助，而且我认为对 你的工作也有帮助。让我问你一个关于 亚马逊的问题。亚马逊就像你的孩子，当然，你后来离开了 它。是的，那感觉如何？对你来说有多难？

English: scared that's um you get more in touch to actually help you probably not just your family relationships your close Intimate Relationships but I think it helps you at work too let me ask you an Amazon question uh Amazon is your baby and for sure um you stepped away from that yeah um what did that feel like how hard was that for you and what is it that yeah um what did that feel like how hard was that for you and what is it like

00:46:10 - 00:46:41

**中文：**嗯，即使在亚马逊还是一家小公司的时候，不知 什么原因，我一直想着要 打造一家比 我更长久的公司。所以我一直从这个 角度思考，思考它如何 成长为一个年轻的“成年人”，然后成功 独立地走向世界。这很不

English: um I even when Amazon was a tiny company for whatever reason I always had in my mind that I wanted to build a company that would Outlast me and so I've always been thinking about it in that framework and uh uh how it could could could kind of grow up into a young adult and be set off into the world uh successfully and independently um and that's very different you know

00:46:41 - 00:46:49

**中文：**一样，你知道，你可以用不同的方式做事，你可以用 不同的方式创建公司，你不必非得那样 做。

English: independently um and that's very different you know um there you can do things you can build companies in different ways you don't have to do that you know you can there's you can have be the genius with a

00:46:49 - 00:47:11

**中文：**你可以成为拥有上 千名助手的天才，你也可以，而且那样也 能非常成功，这没什么 错，但这并不是我 想做的。我 感觉就像 父母 把孩子送走一样，或者就像你的 孩子离开家一样。大学，或者等

English: have to do that you know you can there's you can have be the genius with a thousand helpers you can and that's also can be very successful there's nothing wrong with it it's it wasn't what I wanted to do I felt like a parent sending you know or maybe like with your kids become go off to college or maybe when they graduate from college and

00:47:11 - 00:47:25

**中文：**他们大学毕业，你希望培养出一个 独立自主的孩子，一个 能够闯荡世界的年轻人。

English: kids become go off to college or maybe when they graduate from college and you're hoping that you've created this independent child you know now adult young adult who can go off in the world you don't you don't want them to be

00:47:25 - 00:47:48

**中文：**你不希望他们 依赖你，如果他们依赖你，那就是你的 失败。而且，我一直向 公司内部和 自己强调，没有人是不可或缺的。我 认为CEO 每天审视自己，意识到自己并非 不可或缺，这一点至关重要。我

English: young adult who can go off in the world you don't you don't want them to be dependent on you if they are you failed and I've also I've always preached inside the company and to myself that no one is indispensable I think it's most important for CEOs to look at themselves in the mirror every day and see I'm not indispensable and if you if you so I I want Amazon to go off without me and and

00:47:48 - 00:47:57

**中文：**希望亚马逊即使没有我也能发展壮大。顺便说一句，我仍然在亚马逊，我还没有 完全离开。我是一位父亲，以后也会继续为人父母。

English: indispensable and if you if you so I I want Amazon to go off without me and and I'm still at Amazon by the way I haven't left fully and I am a parent and I will but I'm a 60-year-old man and my mom and

00:47:57 - 00:48:12

**中文：**但我已经60岁了，我的 父母仍然担心我，对吧？所以，为人 父母的责任永远不会停止。我的心在 亚马逊，我的好奇心在亚马逊，我的担忧在亚马逊，我的爱在亚马逊。我永远不会 忘记亚马逊，我会一直在

English: left fully and I am a parent and I will but I'm a 60-year-old man and my mom and dad still worry about me right so you never stop being a parent my heart is in Amazon my curiosity is Amazon my fears are there my love is there I'm never going to forget about Amazon I'll always be there to help um and right now I'm

00:48:12 - 00:48:25

**中文：**那里提供帮助。现在我 投入了大量时间，因为 我知道我能帮上忙，而且它非常 有趣。为什么不呢？但我认为这才是 正确的思考方式。

English: going to forget about Amazon I'll always be there to help um and right now I'm putting a lot of time in it because it's Al I you know I can help and it's super interesting so why not but this is the right way in my view to think about this you know big leaders

00:48:25 - 00:48:55

**中文：**你知道，优秀的领导者 只需要做几件事：他们必须找到核心理念，必须严格 执行这些核心理念，并且他们需要培养下一代 领导者。好的，所以只有两 件事。嗯，我的 工作之一，就是 确保安迪（Andy）

English: right way in my view to think about this you know big leaders only have to do a few things big leaders have to identify the Big Ideas they have to enforce tough execution right against those big ideas and they need to grow the next generation of leaders okay so two that's really it so two things um and so my job part of my one of my jobs right now is to make sure Andy you know Andy jasse and the whole leadership team are

00:48:55 - 00:49:00

**中文：**和整个领导团队取得 成功。我非常重视这份工作。

English: to make sure Andy you know Andy jasse and the whole leadership team are successful I take that job very seriously that's what I was gonna ask as

00:49:00 - 00:49:16

**中文：**这就是我作为 家长想问的。是的，你的孩子可以 自由发展，但他们也会做一些你不希望他们做的事情。没错，我的 孩子有的在上大学，有的刚毕业，我偶尔还得像个 母亲一样照顾他们。

English: successful I take that job very seriously that's what I was gonna ask as a parent yeah your parent you kids can go off and but they do things you don't want the kids to do absolutely I just my I've got kids in college age and just out of college and I still have to ven mother the money every once in a while just happened just um we'll talk about what you

00:49:19 - 00:49:24

**中文：**我们稍后会讨论你 在你的应用程序上订阅和节省的内容，但是，请你帮我们解答一下。

English: just um we'll talk about what you subscribe and save to in just a moment on your app but um help us help us with this you just said you're very you're

00:49:24 - 00:49:41

**中文：**你刚才说你现在非常投入，你在亚马逊人工智能部门具体负责什么工作？是的，有一些事情，但都很琐碎。95%都是人工智能，你觉得这是怎么回事？因为我们内部 正在开发上千个 应用程序。所以，你

English: on your app but um help us help us with this you just said you're very you're very involved with it right now what is it that you're doing at Amazon ai ai yeah so I mean there are a few things but small but it's 95% Ai and where do you think it's just so because there we are literally working on a thousand applications internally so AI you have to remember AI modern AI is a horizontal

00:49:41 - 00:49:59

**中文：**必须记住，现代人工智能是一个横向赋 能层，它 可以用来改进一切，它将无处不在。这很像 电力。

English: applications internally so AI you have to remember AI modern AI is a horizontal enabling layer it it it it will it it can be used to improve everything it will be in everything um this is most like electricity are I went to a um Brewery in Luxembourg many years ago now

00:49:59 - 00:50:02

**中文：**很多年前，我去过卢森堡的一家啤酒厂。

English: electricity are I went to a um Brewery in Luxembourg many years ago now in fact this trip was one of the little

00:50:02 - 00:50:22

**中文：**事实上，这次旅行是AWS 成立的微小催化剂之一。那家 啤酒厂有300年的历史，这家公司酿造啤酒已有300 年历史。顺便说一句，世界上很多最古老的公司 都是啤酒厂，我 不知道为什么。他们

English: Brewery in Luxembourg many years ago now in fact this trip was one of the little tiny catalysts for the founding of AWS the and the brewery was 300 years old this company making beer for 300 years a lot of the oldest companies in the world are breweries by the way I don't know why this is and they were very proud of their history and they had

00:50:22 - 00:50:35

**中文：**为自己的历史感到非常自豪，他们有 一个博物馆，博物馆里有一台 100年前的发电机。

English: don't know why this is and they were very proud of their history and they had a museum and in that museum was an electric power generator 100 years old and because when they wanted to improve the

00:50:35 - 00:50:57

**中文：**因为当他们想用电力提高 啤酒厂的效率时，还 没有电网，所以 他们不得不建造自己的 发电站，自己 发电。在那个年代，每个人都这么做，如果一家酒店需要 用电，他们就会自己 发电。我看着这个，

English: generator 100 years old and because when they wanted to improve the efficiency of their Brewery with electricity there was no power grid so they had to build their own power station so they made their own electricity and at that time that's what everybody did if a hotel wanted electricity they had their own electric generator and I looked at this and I thought this is what computation is like

00:50:57 - 00:51:10

**中文：**心想…… 这就是如今的计算现状：每个人都有自己的数据 中心，但这不会长久，毫无意义。你会购买 离网计算资源，这就是AWS。

English: generator and I looked at this and I thought this is what computation is like today everybody has their own Data Center and that's not going to last it makes no sense you're going to buy compute Off the Grid that's AWS we had we were doing it internally at Amazon

00:51:10 - 00:51:32

**中文：**我们之前在亚马逊内部也做过类似的项目，API也是那时创建的，这本身就是一个非常有趣的 故事。但 你知道，这种水平层级的资源，就像电力、计算，以及现在的 人工智能一样，它们 无处不在。我敢保证，

English: compute Off the Grid that's AWS we had we were doing it internally at Amazon for ourselves and the apis were created there's that that's a very interesting story in its own right but the this is you know these kind of horizontal layers like electricity and compute and now artificial intelligence they they go everywhere there isn't I guarantee you there is not a single application that you can think

00:51:32 - 00:51:50

**中文：**你能想到的任何应用，人工智能都会让它们变得 更好。你认为 亚马逊在这方面处于什么位置？我们 今天一直在讨论大型语言模型，我们和Sam聊过，和 Sundar也聊过。很明显，AWS 在语言模型方面有很大的机会，但

English: there isn't I guarantee you there is not a single application that you can think of is not going to be made better by Ai and where do you think Amazon is in this we've been talking about large language models yeah all day we talked to Sam when we talked to Sundar um clearly AWS has a big opportunity but on the language model piece it doesn't have its own does it

00:51:50 - 00:52:06

**中文：**它没有自己的产品。这 重要吗？你一直很忙。是的，Andrew，你没看到我 昨天发布的公告。我看到了 关于Nova的公告。是的，那是一个 大型语言模型，是我们自己开发的。

English: opportunity but on the language model piece it doesn't have its own does it matter you've been so busy yeah Andrew that you did not see I did yester our announcements yesterday I did see the announ about Nova yes well that is a large language model and it is our own and do you believe that that model is

00:52:06 - 00:52:15

**中文：**你认为这个模型 与其他模型相比有竞争力吗？绝对有竞争力。

English: large language model and it is our own and do you believe that that model is competitive with these other models it it is absolutely competitive so it is um competitive with these other models it it is absolutely competitive so it is um uh benchmarks extraordinarily well it's

00:52:15 - 00:52:33

**中文：**呃，基准测试表现非常出色，它是 一个世界级的基础模型，一个 前沿模型，而且它的 性价比非常非常高。你认为 我们之前讨论的所有这些东西最终 都会商品化吗？就 模型本身而言，我不认为它们会

English: it is absolutely competitive so it is um uh benchmarks extraordinarily well it's a worldclass foundation model it's a Frontier Model um and and it's very very very price performance do you think that all these things we were talking about earlier become commoditized though the models themselves I don't think they'll be exactly commoditized but I think

00:52:33 - 00:52:56

**中文：**完全商品化，但我认为 会有的。我认为模型最终会 成为特定领域的专家，它们在某些方面会 略胜一筹，有些模型的 延迟更低，有些模型 在调用API方面更胜一筹。最终 会出现 很多不同的版本，就像你可能不会咨询某个人一样。

English: models themselves I don't think they'll be exactly commoditized but I think there will be I think models will end up being I specialists at certain they'll be better at slightly do some will have lower latency uh you know some will be you know better at calling apis there's there's a there there will turn out to be a bunch of flavors just like you you might not consult be a bunch of flavors just like you you might not consult you know if you're phoning a friend and

00:52:56 - 00:53:15

**中文：**如果你打电话给朋友 咨询，你不会总是就 所有事情咨询同一个人，情况不会完全一样，因为 我们正在创造的这种智能有点异类，它 在某些方面与人类智能非常不同。这些 Transformer，这些大型

English: might not consult you know if you're phoning a friend and Consulting somebody you're not always going to consult the same person for everything it won't be exactly like that because this kind of intelligence that we're creating is a little alien it's very different uh from Human intelligence in certain ways these these these Transformers these large generative AI um you know even even a

00:53:15 - 00:53:31

**中文：**生成式人工智能，你知道，即使是 单个应用程序也可能会调用 多个AI模型，这取决于 它们的具体需求。成本会更低，因为它们的 参数较少，而且 偶尔你还需要调用真正的大型 模型。大型模型主要用于……

English: these Transformers these large generative AI um you know even even a single application is likely to call multiple AI models depending on what you know some of them will be lower cost because they have a small number of parameters and then every once in a while you'll have to call the really big model the big models are mostly going to be used I don't know yeah probably

00:53:31 - 00:53:47

**中文：**我不知道，嗯，可能 大部分是这样，但它们肯定会经常被 用作教学模型。你知道，这就是 我们昨天和Nova一起宣布的，有 四类模型，包括 巨型的Frontier模型，但你知道，我们仍然

English: model the big models are mostly going to be used I don't know yeah probably mostly but they'll certainly be often used as teacher models so you know this is what we announced yesterday with Nova there are four classes of model there's the the giant you know Frontier Model but that model you know we just still down to the smaller models that are more

00:53:47 - 00:54:02

**中文：**倾向于更小的模型，这些模型更具 成本效益，延迟更低，并且 可以提供不同级别的 智能。所以，你知道，整个过程非常 迷人。顺便说一句，思考这种模型有多么陌生也很有意思。

English: but that model you know we just still down to the smaller models that are more cost effective have lower latency and can and provide different levels of intelligence so that's a really you know this whole thing is is fascinating it's by the way also one the way it's very interesting to think about how alien this kind of it's

00:54:09 - 00:54:14

**中文：**你知道，在某些方面，这些 模型已经比人类更聪明了，因为它们更加跨学科。

English: it's um you know in some ways these models are already smarter than humans because they're more multidisciplinary right um it's very difficult for a human

00:54:14 - 00:54:26

**中文：**对人类来说，成为某个领域的专家是非常困难的，即使你是医生，你也必须 专攻某个领域。你知道，这让 你兴奋还是害怕？哦，我兴奋。

English: because they're more multidisciplinary right um it's very difficult for a human to you know be an expert in you know even if you're a doctor you really have to specialize you know you can be does that excite you or scare you oh excites me I'm not you no I'm no I'm not scared

00:54:26 - 00:54:46

**中文：**我不是你。不，我不是。我不害怕，我只是想……我们确实在讨论某种意义上的“ 人”，你知道，当这一切……好吧，你知道，我和 很多人都讨论过“ 人”的意义，人们会说，如果人工智能比 我们更聪明，在

English: that excite you or scare you oh excites me I'm not you no I'm no I'm not scared I just want I do we do talk about sort of uh human you know what it's going to mean to be a human when this is all well I you know so I've had this conversation about with various people about what it means to be human and and people say well you know if AI is smarter than us better than us at various things won't that take the

00:54:46 - 00:55:06

**中文：**很多方面都比我们强，那岂不是会让 我们的生活失去意义？或者 诸如此类的问题。我 说，你看，我认为自己是个很 不错的作家，但我认识 比我写得好得多的人，事实上，我不认为 我在任何方面是世界上最优秀的。

English: smarter than us better than us at various things won't that take the meaning out of your life or so you know some question along those lines and I said look I consider myself to be a very good writer but I know people who are much better writers than I am and in fact I don't think there's any single thing that I'm the best in the world at if I go down if I'm being really honest

00:55:06 - 00:55:23

**中文：**如果我诚实地 面对自己，我总能找到一些比 我数学好的人，我知道有人比 我跳舞好，这是 肯定的。所以你知道，真的，我一路往下找，总能找到比我 强的人。

English: thing that I'm the best in the world at if I go down if I'm being really honest with myself there I can always find some I know I know people who are better than me at math I know you know people who are better than me at dancing that's for sure so you know there like literally I go right down the line I can always find somebody better and and yet that doesn't take meaning

00:55:23 - 00:55:30

**中文：**然而，这并不意味着生活就失去了意义，因为 如果你 只有成为某个领域的佼佼者才能获得意义，那就太荒谬了。

English: somebody better and and yet that doesn't take meaning for if you're if meaning only if you only get meaning because you're the best in the world of something then very few

00:55:33 - 00:55:42

**中文：**我们当中很少有人能真正感受到 生活的意义，意义并不多，而真正的意义来自于 你的人际关系，来自于那些能 激励你的人。

English: of us are going to have meaning in our lives there isn't going to be a lot of meaning and really your meaning is coming from your relationships you know how uplifting people so like if you if you think about by the way that

00:55:42 - 00:55:54

**中文：**想想看，这种 激励可以是非常局部的，比如，如果你能激励你的 兄弟姐妹、你的 孩子、你的 朋友以及你 社区里的人，你就能从中获得意义。

English: how uplifting people so like if you if you think about by the way that uplifting can be very local you think it's like if you're just uplifting your brother and sister you're uplifting your kids you're uplifting you know your friends and and the people in your community you're going to get meaning from that do you think technology has

00:55:54 - 00:56:08

**中文：**你认为科技让这一切变得 更好了吗？是更好还是更糟？我们 之前和哈里王子聊过，他 显然认为社交媒体才是关键。我 不这么认为。你用社交媒体吗？我 偶尔会用。你说 偶尔，嗯，我并没有沉迷于

English: community you're going to get meaning from that do you think technology has made that better Better or Worse we were talking to Prince Harry earlier he clearly thinks it's social media and I don't are you on social media I am on social media sometimes and you say sometimes well I I am not addicted to social media I go in and look and and um

00:56:08 - 00:56:35

**中文：**社交媒体，我只是偶尔看看，嗯，我有时会尝试从中挖掘一些灵感。这确实需要花费 很多精力去 寻找那些有价值的信息。比如，我关注了很多 我认为很聪明的人，嗯，如果我能只关注 这些人就好了。算法总是能

English: sometimes well I I am not addicted to social media I go in and look and and um I try to mine it for ideas sometimes and and it it it is uh it's a lot of work to find the little nuggets of there where there are some like I I follow a bunch of people who I think are really smart and uh and if I some if I can stay just on those but invariably the algorithm captures my attention and takes me down

00:56:35 - 00:56:46

**中文：**吸引我的注意力，把我引向 另一条道路。我注意到你 很擅长把事情分类，也就是说，你会放下手机，但我从来不会 拿起手机。这对我来说是 自然而然的，虽然这对我来说很容易。

English: on those but invariably the algorithm captures my attention and takes me down a different path you're I've seen you you very good at compartmentalizing meaning I you will put the phone down I never I never pick up my I'm is that natural act though it's easy for me I'm very I'm a um I'm a Serial multitasker

00:56:46 - 00:57:08

**中文：**我是一个连续多任务处理者，所以我非常非常专注。我上 小学的时候，老师告诉我妈妈，我 是个问题学生，因为我不会 切换任务，老师不得不把 我的椅子连同 椅子一起搬到下一个任务地点。所以，你

English: natural act though it's easy for me I'm very I'm a um I'm a Serial multitasker so I'm very very focused when I was in monor school they told my mom that um I was problematic because I wouldn't switch tasks and my teacher would have to pick my whole chair up and move me in my chair to the next task and so I you know it's I'm it's easy for me if I'm at

00:57:09 - 00:57:25

**中文：**知道，这对我来说很容易。如果我 和朋友一起吃饭，我吃饭的时候不会想其他事情，这对我来说并不难。我 很擅长集中注意力，这对我来说很难。嗯，在我们结束之前还有两件事。

English: my chair to the next task and so I you know it's I'm it's easy for me if I'm at dinner with friends I'm at dinner I do not amazing want I don't it's not hard for me that is not hard for me I'm a good focuser that's hard for me um two other things before we go uh there are these different buckets obviously we've

00:57:25 - 00:57:39

**中文：**显然，我们 谈到了不同的领域，比如你投入 大量时间的蓝色起源和亚马逊，然后我看到你在 机器人领域也有投资。人工智能和其他一些事情，当然还有地球基金会，你一天的工作是什么样的？

English: other things before we go uh there are these different buckets obviously we've talked about blue origin which you spent a lot of your time on now and Amazon and then I see you making investments in robotics and Ai and other things and obviously um uh the Earth fund you what is the day like for you what do how do

00:57:43 - 00:58:01

**中文：**你是怎么看待它的？我大概从早上 9点工作到晚上7点，都在开会，我的意思是，从早上 9点到晚上7点都在开会，然后我还有 一些文件要读，我从中汲取能量，我 一直都是这么做的。你知道，除非你愿意非常努力地工作，否则你不可能创办一家公司，

English: you sort of see it I I I work from about 9 to 7 in meetings I mean it's meetings from 9 to 7 it's um and then I have a bunch of documents I read outside that um I get energy from that it is um I've always done that um you can't you know you can't start a company unless you're will to work really hard and not all the

00:58:01 - 00:58:06

**中文：**而且不是所有的工作都很 有趣，这就是为什么它被称为工作。

English: you can't start a company unless you're will to work really hard and not all the work is fun that's why they call it work um a lot of it is fun but I always tell

00:58:06 - 00:58:22

**中文：**很多工作都很有趣，但我总是告诉 别人，如果你能把一半的工作变成 有趣的事情，你就已经做得非常好了。你知道，你必须设定 正确的期望值。如果你大学毕业后 认为你的工作100%都会很 有趣，那你注定会

English: work is fun that's why they call it work um a lot of it is fun but I always tell people if you get half your job to be fun you're crushing it um you know that you got to have your expectations set right if you if you come out of college and think like 100% of your job is going to be fun you're setting yourself up disappointment um here's my final

00:58:22 - 00:58:29

**中文：**失望。我的最后一个 问题是，你不经常做这种采访吗？我是说，你经常做这种采访吗？

English: to be fun you're setting yourself up disappointment um here's my final question for you you don't do this that often you mean do these interviews inter question for you you don't do this that often you mean do these interviews inter very frequently very rare and I'm

00:58:29 - 00:58:34

**中文：**很少吗？我很 好奇，因为我经常做。你肯定偶尔会读一些关于 自己的文章吧。

English: often you mean do these interviews inter very frequently very rare and I'm curious because I do you must read about yourself occasionally um a little bit through

00:58:34 - 00:58:43

**中文：**嗯，通过 社交媒体，我确实偶尔会看到一些事情，比如你 拒绝代言的 决定，有些人对此不太友好。

English: yourself occasionally um a little bit through social media oh I definitely see things sometimes like with the non-endorsement decision that wasn't very nice of some people so that was so I'm actually just

00:58:43 - 00:58:56

**中文：**所以，我其实很 好奇，你觉得世人 对你有哪些误解？我们 经常看到关于你的报道，到处都能看到你的 照片和其他各种信息。

English: decision that wasn't very nice of some people so that was so I'm actually just I'm curious what you think the world misunderstands about you we all read about you all the time uh we see you in pictures and all sorts of things everywhere um and I'm curious what you

00:58:56 - 00:59:18

**中文：**我很好奇，当你看到 公众眼中的杰夫·贝佐斯和 真实的杰夫·贝佐斯之间有什么区别？其实，这也是我 今天邀请你来的原因，因为这些 年来我有机会认识你。我很好奇，从你的角度来看，你认为 公众不了解的是什么？嗯，这个问题很

English: pictures and all sorts of things everywhere um and I'm curious what you think when when you sort of see the projected version of Jeff Bezos and the real Jeff B it's actually the reason I wanted you to be here today um because I've had the opportunity to get to know you over the years um I'm curious though from your Vantage Point what you see as the thing that that the public doesn't well what an interesting I

00:59:18 - 00:59:24

**中文：**有意思，我 没想到你会问这样的问题。

English: that the public doesn't well what an interesting I wasn't expecting any questions like this let me think about this it's um

00:59:24 - 00:59:48

**中文：**让我想想……嗯，我很久以前就放弃让别人完全理解我了。我 意识到，这需要耗费 太多精力，而且你可能最终还是会 失败。所以，被 理解太难了。顺便 说一句，公众人物想要被 亲人理解就已经够难了，

English: wasn't expecting any questions like this let me think about this it's um I I gave up on being well understood a long time ago I kind of thought I I realized it was a um It's kind it would take so much energy and you'd probably still fail you know so understood to be understood is too difficult it's as a public figure it's hard enough by the way to be well understood by your loved ones you know by your kids and your and

00:59:48 - 01:00:09

**中文：**比如你的孩子、 你的家人、 你的至亲好友，甚至连这都 很难，你知道，这需要耗费很多 精力。我觉得要被 全世界理解就更难了。我想说的是，如果你认为自己了解某个 公众人物，那你可能并不了解。当然，也有

English: way to be well understood by your loved ones you know by your kids and your and your and your close family members and your closest friends even that is difficult like you know it takes a lot of energy and I think to be well understood by the world I my I would pause it to you that if you think you understand any public figure you probably don't there may be some exceptions where the people

01:00:09 - 01:00:25

**中文：**一些例外，比如 我不太了解的人，像奥普拉在她主持 节目的时候，因为她真的非常真实，你经常 在各种不同的场合看到她，所以你 可能对她有很深的了解。

English: public figure you probably don't there may be some exceptions where the people I don't know maybe like Oprah when she had her show because she really was you you're talking you saw her so often and and in so many different circumstances that maybe you got a real sense of her and you know I know and she does seem

01:00:25 - 01:00:46

**中文：**我知道，她 在节目里看起来确实和节目里一样。所以，我认为确实存在一些罕见的例子，人们最终会定义自己，但大多数情况下，公众人物的定义都取决于少数 几个吸引眼球的因素，这些因素往往会 主导

English: that maybe you got a real sense of her and you know I know and she does seem like the woman on her show like it so there I think there are these rare cases where people end up defining themselves but mostly you end up defined by a small set of things that catch ATT as a public figure that catch people's attention and um and they they tend to they just dominate the entire conversation you know like I you

01:00:46 - 01:00:51

**中文：**整个讨论。比如，就我而言，可能是财富之类的。

English: they they tend to they just dominate the entire conversation you know like I you know in my case it would be wealth or something like this people would would

01:00:51 - 01:01:15

**中文：**人们会 说，如果你…… 你知道，我曾经…… 有 一次和比尔·盖茨在台上，发生了一件特别搞笑的事。那是在 我刚成为 世界首富不久之后，我 从比尔手中夺走了这个头衔——我 发誓，我从未刻意追求过这个头衔。当时我们

English: know in my case it would be wealth or something like this people would would say you know it's very hard if you're you know um I had a a very funny moment on stage with Bill Gates once uh it was shortly after I had become the wealthiest person in the world and I had taken that title from Bill a title which I had you know I tell you I promise you I had never sought and um and uh we were being interviewed the Two of Us by I

01:01:16 - 01:01:33

**中文：**俩正在接受采访，主持人我记不清是谁了，但 他问我：“比尔，你对这 家伙抢走你世界 首富的头衔有什么感想？”还没等比尔 回答，我就看着他说：“ 不客气。”因为当然，这并不是什么大事。

English: I had never sought and um and uh we were being interviewed the Two of Us by I can't remember who the moderator was but he said uh uh Bill how do you feel about this guy stealing your number one uh wealthiest person title and before bill could answer I looked at Bill and said you're welcome um because of course it's not it it's actually just a

01:01:33 - 01:02:05

**中文：**实际上，这只是…… 在我们的文化中，这种现象往往比较普遍，人们过度关注它，然后他们就以为你也关注它，但这其实 并非事实。就我而言，我认为自己是一个 发明家，我 每天醒来都会追随我的好奇心，

English: you're welcome um because of course it's not it it's actually just a uh it that particular thing is tends to be dominant in our culture it kind of people over focus on it and then they think you're focused on it which isn't really true um it's you know in my case I think of myself as an inventor that's what I am and I wake up every day and I follow my curiosity and I explore and I really am an inventor

01:02:05 - 01:02:13

**中文：**探索未知领域。我真的是一个发明家，我非常擅长这个，我拥有很强的 横向思维能力，我热爱解决问题。

English: every day and I follow my curiosity and I explore and I really am an inventor I'm very good at that I'm a very good lateral thinker and I love problems and I love a whiteboard and I love having a

01:02:13 - 01:02:37

**中文：**我喜欢白板，也喜欢和一群 聪明人 一起工作，我们一起寻找解决 问题的独特方案。我就是这样看待 自己的。如果我能登上 福布斯发明家排行榜，并且一路 攀升到榜首，那我就能被人 理解，至少部分被理解。但

English: lateral thinker and I love problems and I love a whiteboard and I love having a team of other smart people and we work together and we find unusual solutions to things and that's how I think of myself so like if I could somehow have a Forbes list of inventors and if I could climb my way to the top of that inventor list that's what would make me then I'd be understood or at least in part but I don't somehow I think it you have to

01:02:37 - 01:02:59

**中文：**我觉得，作为公众人物，你必须决定你 想投入多少精力去争取被 理解，因为你可能花了很多 时间，但最终可能还是不行。所以，偶尔接受采访或许会有帮助，比如我接受过 Lex Freedman的采访，也做过

English: be understood or at least in part but I don't somehow I think it you have to decide too as a public figure how much energy do you want to put into being understood because you can spend a lot of time and it probably still wouldn't work so you know it probably helps to do an occasional interview like this I did Lex I did Lex Freedman and um I've done a couple of things and so you don't want

01:02:59 - 01:03:11

**中文：**一些其他的事情。你不想 太神秘，以至于没人 见到你。你想成为像 霍华德·休斯那样的人物，但你 不想完全隐居。

English: Lex I did Lex Freedman and um I've done a couple of things and so you don't want to be so mysterious that nobody ever sees you and they you know you want to be the uh the Howard Hughes or whatever you don't want to be a recluse completely but I also I really value my time I work

01:03:12 - 01:03:20

**中文：**而且，我非常珍惜我的时间，我工作 非常努力，我非常重视我所做的一切，我做的每一分钟都是宝贵的。

English: don't want to be a recluse completely but I also I really value my time I work very hard I care deeply about the things I work on and every minute I'm doing something like this is a minute I not

01:03:20 - 01:03:37

**中文：**我没有 做别的事情，并不是说我不 喜欢做这件事，我很喜欢，也很 享受，而且你做得非常好。嗯，谢谢你，杰弗里·贝佐斯，杰夫·贝佐斯，非常感谢你。

English: I work on and every minute I'm doing something like this is a minute I not doing something else not that I'm not happy to do this I am and and I have enjoyed it and you're very good at it um thank you Jeffrey Bezos Jeff Bezos thank you so much